Everyone, please help clear this up once and for all... does the Old Testament count?

Question

I'd appreciate serious answers from anyone, believers and nonbelievers alike.

In response to a very recent question, many Christians showed up to vehemently deny the applicability of practically anything in the Old Testament. They said that, when Jesus came, he did away with all the old rules and laws and vindictiveness and violent reciprocation, etc. Here's the question: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061216130100AAXhuB6

I've ALSO been told by many completely certain Christians that NO word, not one single iota, from the OT has been dismissed or done away with. According to them, the OT still "counts"... it still entirely stands, just as binding as anything else in the Bible.

Both seem to be able to cite Biblical support for the positions, but I'd like to clear up the confusion right now... who's got it right?

And no, you can't have it both ways. You can't say it's A and non-A at the same time. Either OT rule and law is long gone (Jesus did away with it) or it's still binding (Jesus didn't do away with it).

I'm not saying that any Christian has told me the ENTIRE OT is defunct. Please don't assume such. We're talking about the laws and rules of the OT.

Answer 1

It's simple.

Jesus gave us a NEW covenant, not a MODIFIED covenant.

The old law NEVER saved anyone, so why would we need it, now that we have Christ, his grace, and his true church?

The misunderstanding stems mostly from this rather difficult verse:

Mat 5:17 Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled.

Most people fail to understand that Jesus was being very specific about his intentions here.

He said he didn't come to destroy the law, but to fulfil the law. And the law would continue in effect forever, without the slightest change, UNTIL ALL BE FULFILLED.

Then, Jesus went out and fulfilled ALL that was written about him in the LAW and the PROPHETS and the PSALMS.

Joh 19:28 Afterwards, Jesus knowing that ALL THINGS WERE NOW ACCOMPLISHED, that the scripture might be fulfilled, said: I thirst.
Joh 19:29 Now there was a vessel set there, full of vinegar. And they, putting a sponge full of vinegar about hyssop, put it to his mouth.
Joh 19:30 Jesus therefore, when he had taken the vinegar, said: It is consummated. And bowing his head, he gave up the ghost.

At that moment, the old law passed away forever, and the new covenant, which would be governed solely by the God-given grace, power, and authority of the universal CHURCH, became the NEW reality.

As soon as he returned from the dead, Jesus explained it to his apostles like this:

Luk 24:44 And he said to them: These are the words which I spoke to you while I was yet with you, that all things must needs be fulfilled which are written in the law of Moses and in the prophets and in the psalms, concerning me.
Luk 24:45 Then he opened their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures.
Luk 24:46 And he said to them: Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer and to rise again from the dead, the third day:
Luk 24:47 And that penance and remission of sins should be preached in his name, unto all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

In other words, " I successfully completed my mission by dying, raising myself up again, and fulfilling all the scriptures. Now it's time to begin the mission for which I trained you."

St. Paul is also very clear about the old law passing away, but I won't bore you with unnecessary details here.

So in summary ... Jesus said the old law would remain until all things were fulfilled. He fulfilled all things. The old law passed away. The new covenant, governed by the church, and empowered by God's sanctifying grace, took over.

The old testament of the Bible still serves a very useful and distinctive purpose, and will never, in itself, become obsolete, but ALL the old laws, statutes and ordinances are now of NO EFFECT and are merely ancient history.

Any questions?

Answer 2

sorry I can not answer this question the way that you would like, I am not trying to be rude but, Christian are different. and that is why there are so many denominations.
I have heard Pastors say that the New Testament does not apply, in certain passages, that it was a different time and dispensation.

what the bible says is that Jesus fulfilled the Law, not did away with it.
what i believe, is all that I can affirm.
although i do know what some of the others believe, i cannot agree with all of them, even though I do understand what they are saying and why they believe what they do.
most of the old Testament was a guideline, that people took to be meant as Law.
in the question you referred to about stoning, there were exception even then. but you have to read the whole bible to understand them.
in the New Testament Jesus said, let the one without sin cast the first stone. in that case only the ones without sin can stone those that are to be stoned.
that leaves me out,
also in the New Testament, Jesus gave a new commandment that he said fulfilled the old Testament Law, and that was that we love one another, it does not say that we love all that believe as we do,
We Christians are supposed to follow the teachings of Jesus, and that is what I try to do.
please notice that I did say try to, I am not perfect, and I think that is great, because then I cannot judge others and i like it that way.

the bible comes in 2 parts, the old testament, and testament means Covenant, was a covenant between God and men.
and the new Covenant between God and man through Jesus.

Answer 3

The Old Testament still stands for the most part.

You have to understand that it is all Gods word and in the first half (the Old Testament) was telling of the coming of Jesus Christ and down the line God gave some laws to his chosen people so they might be able to find favor in his eyes and to help them know what is required of them as his children.

The basic rundown is Adam & Eve sinned by not obeying God so to regain mankind’s life from sin Jesus had to come and pay the ransom (for the price of sin is death)

So ok we know why we needed to be free from sin now about the laws given to us by God.

Before Jesus came to earth men would offer a sacrifice to God for there sins, but now that Jesus paid the price this is no longer needed so OT say to make an animal sacrifice but because of Jesus we don’t need to pretty easy you still with me?

Jesus when he was on earth told us:
Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

So the laws of the old testament still stand pretty easy to find the answers to God will answer every question you could ever have just read his word.

Answer 4

The previous testomony Has Validity, The e book Of Romans [15:4] Tells Us That The O.T. develop into Written For All to study From. in spite of the undeniable fact that the e book Of Hebrews [8:6] Tells Us, Going ahead, in this part Of The flow [After Christ's lack of lifestyles, Burial And Resurrection], we've A more beneficial ideas-blowing Ministry, an more desirable Covenant contained in the hot testomony. the a number of classes contained in the O.T. at the instantaneous are not any further proper, mutually with the regulation, Which Has Been Made more beneficial With GRACE, For both Jews And Gentiles. both Testaments help one yet another in spite of the undeniable fact that. you'll discover The O.T. contained in the N.T. And The N.T. contained in the O.T. The previous testomony develop into A Shadow [no longer the completed image] of issues to come back [the hot testomony]. . . there remains more beneficial Prophecy To Be Fulfilled With Christ's 2d creation. . .2 Tim 3:16 Tells Us that each and every one Scripture is God-breathed and is functional for preparation, rebuking, correcting and preparation in Righteousness. it truly is all the observe Of GOD Who hasn't ever and could not in any respect substitute [Hebrews 13:8]. . .that is in effortless words The Human it extremely is compelled to modify and modify issues. . .

Answer 5

well..this is what I believe...
Everything in the bible is there for a reason. It is there to teach us something. I believe that Jesus DID do away with the OLD laws. For instance...His blood has cleansed us all, therefore when we believe in Him and ask forgiveness, our sins are gone, where in the old Test. before Jesus, blood scrifices had to be made for cleansing of sins. Since Jesus was the ultimate blood sacrifice, that "law" has been done away with. Now, that doesn't mean that what is written about sacrifice in the old test. is "wrong", it's there for a reason.
It is hard to write what I personally believe in this little box here. There are lots of things that people like to debate. I think it sad that "christians" will argue with EACH other over matters, and put each other down for different points of views.
I am taught that Christianity is about Christ and that the devil wants to cause arguements within the church to seperate people. Think how POWERFUL Christianity would be if every denomination put aside their differences and stood TOGETHER in the belief in Christ?!
I don't condemn anyone for believeing different about the old/new testament. I know what I have been taught, it sets RIGHT in my heart and therefore, that is what I believe. Some day I will get to sit down and ask this to Jesus and He will give me the true answer! :-)

Answer 6

There are at least two different views on this. Some hold to "Dispensational Theology" and others "Covenant Theology." Most Baptists, Pentecostal, Church of Christ, Fundamentalist, and non-Denominational churches subscribe to the former. They mostly ignore the Old Testament as nullified by the coming of Christ. Presbyterians hold to "Covenant Theology" which sees Christ as the fulfillment of the Old Testament, but not nullifying it. Christ extends the Covenant with the Jews to the Gentiles and rest of the world. Yet Covenant Theology does not see all the Old Testament Laws as applicable. Most theologians divided the Mosaic laws into Ceremonial, Moral, and Civil, finding the Moral low still applicable.

Answer 7

Yes, Zero,
TheOld Testament still counts.
The Jews are still God's chosen people according to the Old and New Testaments.

The New Testament is hidden in the Old, and the Old Testament is revealed more fully in the New. While the NT reveals Jesus as the one that fulfilled the OT Law, Jesus Himself is quoted as saying:

Answer 8

The Old Testament counts. Jesus did not come to end the law but to bring it into completeness. Not only are we not to kill. . . we are not to hate. Not only are we not to commit adultery . . . we are not to lust . . . etc.
The only laws that ended were the ceremonial laws. There are only Ten Commandments but there are many, many ceremonial laws found in the old testament. The Ten Commandments are certainly still in effect. Some say that the reason Jesus expanded on them in the Sermon on the Mount is so that our need for redemption would be clear to us. For if we couldn't keep the Ten Commandments then we could not keep the intent of them - that is not to hate or be angry or lust etc. etc.
Try to remember that Christianity is a religion. Religions will always fail you. Christ is not a religion. My faith is in Jesus and the Word of God as revealed to me by the Holy Spirit. I think their is so much confusion because people continue to argue theology and to say he is right and he is wrong. Jesus warned us against this. The bible is clear to those who are living in the Spirit. It is not understanable to the natural man. Christ is not a religion. Christ is not a theology. Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. God wants for us to be in relationship with Him and with one another in the Spirit. Jesus final prayer was that "we all be one as He and the Father are one, in the Spirit."

Answer 9

"And no, you can't have it both ways. You can't say it's A and non-A at the same time. Either OT rule and law is long gone (Jesus did away with it) or it's still binding (Jesus didn't do away with it)."

The quote above is taken from your "Additional Details".

You do realize that there are FOUR separate systems of laws in the O.T., don't you? So, to re-phrase your analogy, if law = A,B,C & D, you have law. If A is done away with, then law = B,C,D. you still have law. I can have it both ways: It's A and non-A.

Answer 10

Some parts are gone, others are not. The moral law still stands. This tells us what God considers sin so that we can avoid it. However, the laws regarding sacrifices and cleanliness don't apply now. Jesus was the final sacrifice, and He did away with the laws regarding cleanliness when He told Paul that nothing He's made is unclean. Additionally, many laws about cleanliness were there to prevent diseases that don't exist now, or are prevented by access to medicine, regular showers and washing our hands with soap.

So, the moral law still stands, bc it tells us what our conduct should be. This isn't so hard to follow now, however, since when Jesus enters you and begins to change your heart, you will obey the Law without thinking about it, when you allow God to live through you, you'll be doing everything you're supposed to.