For patriotic Americans out there; if we are so wonderful and just, explain Indians and westward expansion?

Question

I would start with a couple of books : Dee Brown : Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee, or Black Elk Speaks by G Neidhardt. This was also genocide. We just needed their land.

Joseph: All I can say is Custer got what he deserved.

Think about this: We were being brutal dictators to the Indians and used WMDs ( blankets contaminated with small pox given to villiages to wipe them out ) , and out right mass murder - even when we had treaties. Kinda like Saddam ?

Silent D: I see no reason to leave. However I may make a vacation trip to " Thran " someday. My point is : it is very hypocritlcal to justify what we are doing in Iraq based on our perception of Saddams acts, when the US did all that and more over a period of 200 years. We killed millions.

John B: this is very true: We are like the Byzantine Empire before the Venitians invaded in the 4th Crusade in the 13th C.

Its fascinating how imigration is such a hot button issue. I was not even thinking about that when I posted this question. Underneath all this fear and worry has to be resentment and frustration. I don't think building fences and purging society of illeagals is going to work, but I suppose we are going to try anyway.

Answer 1

We aren't wonderful and just. We are the reigning superpower until we do something stupid enough to lose that position to China, an even which I fear will happen in my lifetime.

As for patriotism, we are mostly just lucky to be born in this country, and it's too bad that people confuse luck with merit. If we had to earn the right to be an American, many of us would fail miserably.

Answer 2

I am not trying to put anyone's thinking down or uphold any as well. What I am saying here is my believe as of today as far as history go's. But to think that the whites where the ones who caused the death of so many American Indians is wrong. Yes the wars, battles and at times the out right murder of some trains can not be over looked. The Whites, the Army and Mexican army as well as a few more Country's was the cause of many deaths of the American Indians. But there where many deaths caused by fighting between the different Indian Tribe. There where brutal things caused by both sides that no body likes to talk about. The other thing that I have seen here is that some think that most of the battles and wars took place in the Plane area of the Country. The Indian war and battles in the East would make what took place in the Plains look like a Sunday picnic.

Answer 3

Every country in this world could look back at the past and see things they could have done better. The US is in no way innocent even if your scenario had not happened.

The people living at that time...and the people in power....made these thing happen because of conquest. To not do it would mean we would not be where this country is today.

Was it a necessary evil. No. It could have been done much better.....involving the Indians in this nation instead of trying to run them out. But there are countless things you could point to and say the same.

As with the decisions you made in your own life the things that have happened in the past directed us to where we are. Good of bad.

The US....in spite of most of our belief....has always been an aggressive nation. Perhaps that is why we are what we are today.
And as we loose that we may very well no longer be that super power we like to think we are.

Answer 4

This point of view, somehow equating the taking of the Indian lands by American settlers was clearly an open/notorious invasion and just as in all animal life on the planet, the dominant critter pulled rank and won the goodies. Forget the ethics of the matter for a moment and just compare the Mexicans invading America. It is clearly a challenge from one culture to another. May the best group win. If America and AMericans allow Mexico to steal their country out from under them without a fight, it's no one's fault but the AMerican culture's for being weak, insipid, out of touch and ineffectual in the governing of it's own country.
Even more ironic and telling, is that a country that is on the brink of disaster, like Mexico, can come in and take over a country that is supposedly so big and bad as the USA.
If you worry about the ethics of the matter enough to quote the atrocities of the Indian/American wars and struggle, then you are far too out of bounds in your personal reasoning to suggest that it's justifiable for Mexicans to illegally invade AMerica, for whatever reason. It's invasion. Ethically speaking, YOU can't justify it.
Wouldn't you in your "liberal" (concern for "righteous" actions) iterpretation agree? Two wrongs don't make a right?
If you see the intelligence of this arguement, then you can understand and should endorse all illegals returning to Mexico or wherever. The problem is here is mainly with Mexico, however.

Answer 5

In these terms, you are the Indian and the Mexicans are the White Man, now how do you feel. The fact is you are like all the Indians back then who said "The land belongs to everyone, we can't hold the White Man from taking control", look where that landed them. You're right it was probably not just for us to take this land from the inhabitants but its done. Now we are under siege from a conquering army and you just want to sit back and take it. No one is claiming we are wonderful and just, we are fighting for self-preservation. Our problem is we have a large portion of our population, just like you, who are going to be perfectly happy when we are forced to live on reservations, while the Mexican invaders turn our country into one big Tiajuana.

Before that happens please send me your address so I can move into your house, no problem right? You stole the land it is on from the Indians who lived there centuries ago.

Answer 6

What's to explain and what is your point? The Indians were here first, Europeans arrived, the stronger took what they wanted. Simple as that. This is the history of the world since the beginning of time. Try reading the Bible. People have been killing one another for thousand of years.

If it were not for the Americans we would all be speaking Japanese or German...if we were still here, so get over yourself already.

What is past is past. It IS history.All we can do is read about it, learn from it, and try not to let it repeat itself.

Answer 7

We know all about how we treated the American Indian. We
learned that in American History class in the 8th grade.

And we are still paying for it. Most of them are better off then we
are. Check out Indian owned Casinos in Connecticut among
other things.

So, is there some kind of a point you're trying to make?

MERRY CHRISTMAS and have a nice day.

Thank you very much, while you're up!!!!!

Answer 8

What do you expect for us to do now? Native Americans didnt like the spanish invasion either, so what you are basically saying is that Americans should give up the USA to Mexicans who arent even Natives. This makes sense how?

Answer 9

Well, let us start even earlier as to why those indians attacked other tribes, stole their land, killed them off, made them slaves and raped their women? Stuff happens, it happens in Africa, Asia and Europe, why whine about the USa, we all know you hate the USA, if you live here please do us all a favor and move. I hear Thran is nice this time of year.

Answer 10

I'm a American Indian and I think this country ts wonderful. It's 2006. I live here in this great country not in the past.