2006-12-16 01:37:06 · 8 answers · asked by fstephanie01 1 in Sports ➔ Boxing
Yes he did, coming off his suspension Ali begged Frazier for a shot at his title saying "We both can make a lot of money" he told Joe he would be "truly grateful"and "be in debt to him" if he could make the fight happen. Ali asked Joe for "Help"
Ali repaid Joe by calling him names and ridiculing him in public before, during and after the fight.
Smitty ~
When Ali did comeback there was so much resentment of him that he would have had to wait a lot longer for a shot at the title if he didn't go to Joe and ask (not beg) "To help make this fight" granted Joe could never have made the money that he did without Ali, but Ali did "Put his hat in his hand" and ask Joe "Please, I need this fight" Ali acknowledged this in his book as did Angelo Dundee and Frazier who said "This man came to me and asked me to help him out and the he wants to call me names and insult me?" Those are facts that can't be denied, I don't make them I read them, I listen to them, I remember them.
Smitty, Why wouldn't you kiss me?
2006-12-16 08:31:05 · answer #1 · answered by Santana D 6 · 2⤊ 4⤋
During their wars of the 70's, Ali would berate Frazier by referring to him by such names as, "Gorilla" and "Uncle Tom". Frazier took this very personal, because he had actually fought hard to get Ali reinstated into professional boxing. Ali had been stripped of his title after refusing to be drafted during the Vietnam War about three four years prior to their first classic war in the ring in 1971, where Frazier won the fight (he floored Ali with a crushing left hook in the 15th, and Ali was up within two seconds of falling. Any lesser fighter would have been down for the count). Frazier never forgave Ali for what he said, and he still holds a grudge today. Quite frankly, I don't blame him! I am not African American, but for a "brother" to refer to another as "Uncle Tom" after the man fought like hell to get you back you livelihood would be equivalent to spitting in the man's face.
2006-12-16 03:35:37 · answer #2 · answered by rhino 6 · 3⤊ 1⤋
Yes, he always found the time to give advice to everyone. During the Ali vs Frazier III fight. Ali told Frazier, they told me you were washed up and Frazier said they lied.
2006-12-16 16:17:49 · answer #3 · answered by Bru 6 · 2⤊ 1⤋
Smitty and Santana - Here are facts I've read or have been confirmed in television documentaries on the first Ali/Frazier fight. Ali did indeed ask Frazier for help in getting his license. Frazier said "No problem I'll do all I can to help get your license back." It is documented that Smokin' Joe went to D.C. to help the process along. Frazier and Yank Durham, in the end did contribute to getting a Federal Judge in the state of New York to grant Ali a license to compete there. Hence the Ali/Bonavena fight and the epic first Frazier/Ali fight.
Now having said that do I think Frazier's intentions were to be magnanimous and help Ali get back into the fight game? No. He wanted a piece of Ali in the ring. That in my mind will always be his main motivation in helping Ali get reinstated. Both of you see this particular point in boxing history differently, and that is all, neither one of you are wrong. It's who's point of view you see it from Ali's or Frazier's. All I know is that it was a privilege for me to have seen two all time greats square off in the ring. Peace Brothers.
Post note: Smitty, in reference to the Uncle to Tom comment you made. In an interview with Frazier he stated that because of Ali's comments made towards Joe about being an Uncle Tom (which all of us know Frazier wasn't, if anything Frazier experienced Black America of the 40's 50's and 60's in a much truer light than Ali. I've just paraphrased what Bryant Gumbel said in a documentary pertaining to Ali/Frazier I ). Because of this Frazier called Ali by his birth name of Cassuis Clay because he knew that would anger Ali and possibly give him an edge in their first fight (Frazier said this in another documentary about their first fight). Ali because he thought it could give him a edge in their fights was a pychological bully and took it too far. (Jim Brown was of the same belief and that is also documented in the same documentary). My opinion is that if Ali was going to throw stones in a glass house he should have expected the same from Frazier, without holding Frazier to a higher standard than he held himself to in reference to denigrating comments and name calling.
2006-12-17 09:46:28 · answer #4 · answered by Brent 5 · 1⤊ 3⤋
advice well he asked Joe for a title shot I don't think that is advice. Look at Ali today he cant even talk or walk look at Joe he still does public appearances... Joe was a gentleman Ali was a braggart
2006-12-16 12:12:13 · answer #5 · answered by sportlvr45 4 · 2⤊ 1⤋
TO SANTANA - ALI DID NOT BEG FRAZIER FOR A TITLE SHOT BECAUSE YOU OF ALL PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW THAT FRAZIER WOULD NEVER BE CONSIDERED THE CHAMP UNTIL HE BEAT ALI (HELP HIM OUT BRAD/BRENT).
ALSO, WHO COULD FRAZIER HAVE FOUGHT A MADE THAT MUCH MONEY.
SANTANA, I LIKE YOU BUT PLEASE STOP TRYING TO PASS YOUR OPINIONS OFF AS FACT.
ALI MADE FUN OF ALL HIS OPPONENTS BOTH BLACK OR WHITE.
FRAZIER, PATTERSON AND TERRELL WERE PLAYING THE "TOM CARD" BY CALLING ALI, CLAY AND THEY PAID THE PRICE.
SUPER POST SCRIPT - SEVERAL OTHER POINTS:
1). ALI DIDN'T BEG FRAZIER FOR HELP. ALI HAD HOWARD COSELL, NORMAN MAILER AND OTHER NOTABLE PEOPLE AND POLITCIANS (WHO DO THINK CARRIED MORE WEIGHT, THESE PEOPLE OR FRAZIER) HELPING HIM GET HIS LICENSE BACK AND THEIR OPINIONS CARRIED MORE WEIGHT.
2). BY THAT TIME THE BOXING ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAD STRIPPED ALI OF HIS TITLE WITHOUT DUE PROCESS HAD REALIZED THAT THEY WERE WRONG.
3). ALSO AT THAT TIME MOST OF AMERICA WAS AGAINST THE WAR ESPECIALLY AFTER 2 ANTI-WAR ACTIVISTS (KING AND KENNEDY) WERE ASASSINATED IN 1968.
4). FRAZIER WAS FIRST IN NOT CALLING ALI BY HIS CORRECT NAME THEN ALI CALLED HIM A "TOM".
5).BRENT, YOU ARE MY MAIN MAN AND I WOULD TELL YOU THE SAME THING, DON'T TRY TO PASS YOUR OPINIONS OFF AS FACTS.
6). SANTANA AND I BOTH CAN'T BE CORRECT. IT IS EITHER TUESDAY OR IT ISN'T!!!!
7). YOU SHOULDN'T BE QUOTING BIG JIM ON THE SUBECT OF CALLING PEOPLE "TOM" BECAUSE HE CALLED BOTH MAGIC AND JORDAN "TOMS'" FOR NOT DOING ENOUGH IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY.
8). ALL THESE POINTS ARE THE FACTS, JACK!!!
9). I DID TELL SANTANA THAT I LIKE HIM, WHAT YOU WANT ME TO KISS HIM? I DON'T THINK SO!!!
P. S. AS I TOLD YOU BEFORE POLITICS IS IN EVERYTHING.
2006-12-16 09:22:04 · answer #6 · answered by smitty 7 · 2⤊ 2⤋
yes he did....right before he pounded the hell out of him.
2006-12-16 01:52:03 · answer #7 · answered by acoustic_sam 2 · 3⤊ 1⤋
what about?
2006-12-16 01:44:59 · answer #8 · answered by JOHN jen 4 · 1⤊ 1⤋