Can a protestant explain the following words of Luther in his letter to Leo X and his schism later?

Question

"I never approved of a Schism nor will I approve of it for all eternity ... that the Roman Church is more honored by God that all others is not to be debated ... though nowadays everything is in a wretched state, it is no grounds for separating from the Church. On the contrary, the worse things are going, the more we should hold close to her, for it is not by separating from the Church that we can make her better ... There is no sin, no amount of evil, which should be permitted to dissolve the bond of charity or break the bond of unity of the body." -
source: http://www.crowhill.net/journeyman/Vol1No2/stood.html

Yes, we Catholics admit that there were corrupt elements in Christ´s Church, because he came for the sinners, but that does nor mean the Church doctrine was wrong. Otherwise Christ would not have kept his promise (Mt. 16:18 - And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build MY church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.)
The consequences of Luther schism and "sola scriptura" can be better described by Luther himself in this quote from one of his letters to fellow "reformer" Heinrich Zwingli. "There are almost as many sects and beliefs as there are heads; this one will not admit Baptism; that one rejects the Sacrament of the altar; another places another world between the present one and the day of judgment; some teach that Christ is not God. There is not an individual, however clownish he may be who does not claim to be inspired by the Holy Ghost, and who does not put forth as prophecies his ravings and dreams."

Answer 1

Catholic here. I've never seen this before but I'm kinda wow-ed. I didn't know Luther said that. As far as I'm concerned, that's case closed on protestantism. Anyone who says different is just being stubborn.

Answer 2

Good question!
Remember, it was the Papal Bull "Decet Romanum Pontificem" and the Edict of Worms that excommunicated Martin Luther from the Roman Catholic Church and made him an outlaw. He was kicked out of the Roman Catholic Church by Pope Leo X. It is pretty evident in Martin Luther's writings at the beginning of the Reformation that his aim was never, ever to split from or break away. That is why the whole movement is called the "Reformation." I would point out that terms like "Lutheran" and "Protestant" were labels that were affixed by the Romanists.
It disheartens me that the quote (listed above) leaves out much of what Luther said. Since I am at work, I will try to find the entire quote from Luther’s Letters to Pope Leo X later. Everyone tries to claim Martin Luther’s motivation was to breakaway and start his own church. The problem with this theory is two fold.
1. Martin Luther never wanted his name affixed a church or a movement. He wasn’t a vain man that wanted to see his name on the church sign out front. Here are two quotes that show his motivation.

"...By any consideration of body or soul you should never say: I am Lutheran, or Papist. For neither of them died for you, or is your master. Christ alone died for you, he alone is your master, and you should confess yourself a Christian. But if you are convinced that Luther's teaching is in accord with the gospel and that the pope's is not, then you should not discard Luther so completely, lest with him you discard also his teaching, which you nevertheless recognize as Christ's teaching. You should rather say: Whether Luther is a rascal or a saint I do not care; his teaching is not his but Christ's."

“Most days I'm so depressed, I can't even get out of bed. People try to make me a fixed star. But I'm not. I'm a wandering planet. No one should look to me for guidance.”

2. Martin Luther would have been happy to stay in exile at Wartburg Castle. But when the detarioting state of the parishes in the country side was called to this attention he felt he had to do something.
He writes, “The deplorable conditions which I recently encountered when I was a visitor [in regional churches] constrained me to prepare this brief and simple catechism or statement of Christian teaching. Good God, what wretchedness I beheld! The common people, especially those who live in the country, have no knowledge whatever of Christian teaching and unfortunately many pastors are quite incompetent and unfitted for teaching. Although the people are supposed to be Christian, are baptized and receive the holy sacrament, they do not know the Lord’s Prayer, the Creed or the Ten Commandments; they live as if there were pigs and irrational beasts, and now that the Gospel has been restored they have mastered the fine art of abusing liberty!”

It wasn’t until the Diet of Augsburg (1530) did Luther and the other Reformers saw that reconciliation with Rome was impossible. New Pastors and Seminary Professors needed to be established, because they had been cut off from the churchly institutions.

The quote really doesn’t prove that Martin Luther was a hypocrite. It shows that as both sides became emboldened it was obvious that the “Lutherans” were not going to be reconciled with Rome and they needed to start setting up churchly institutions.


Father K, your comment, "Awesome. Or how Father Martin Luther, when his Deacon spilled the Holy Chalice on a chair in the Sanctuary ordered the chair burned?? " Shows you how much you dont understand the Lutheran Church or its theology.

Answer 3

sorry this quote was taken out of context and used by a biased source which intrigued you to ask your question.

Also, how do we know for sure with proof that that is actually his writing, and not an imposters letter.

He said "here I stand" and protested against the "indulgences" and bribery / robbery and the corruption that was going on by the Roman Catholic church at that time, and he pointed out exactly what the bible said explicitly, that we are saved by grace through faith alone, not by works... He was in favour of people reading for themselves what was contained in the bible, and the bible not be held back from public as the Roman Catholic Church officials tried to do at that time.

Even if it was his words, at that time, he was living in the Holy Roman Empire, there wasn't total separation of church and state, and he would be under considerable pressure to speak the party line.

Answer 4

Martin Luther never intended a schism. Some say he changed his mind. He didn't. Martin Luther just wanted to *reform* the Catholic Church. Men like Calvin wanted the split.

Answer 5

Luther is just stating that he never meant to create a new branch of the Christian religion, he was merely trying to fix the existing one. The church at the time however was unable to meet and satisfy the demands of a lot of people, and so despite his wishes, Luther was inevitably partly responsible for the beginning of the Protestant branch. He wanted a unified and strong church, just one that didn't abuse it's power etc.

Answer 6

a million. Lay human beings weren't allowed to study the Bible and the church became exploiting them. study the history at that element and you gets the belief. for example.... the promoting of indulgences. Luther knew salvation became by making use of Grace. 2. The schism became no longer his selection. He was hoping to reform the church he enjoyed. Christ is notably and he regarded that.... it isn't the church. He became sorrowful approximately placing apart. 3. He did have faith Christ must be depended on. it relatively is why he observed Christ, even whilst it meant he could be excommunicated from the church he enjoyed. 4. He believed Jesus' words, yet knew that became no longer the gospel the Roman Catholic church preached. you relatively ought to learn this completely. i became raised Lutheran (mom's fringe of the kinfolk) and my father's fringe of the kinfolk became Catholic. i've got on the grounds that had history classes in college that lined this. My study for affirmation and study in college lead me to understand that Luther first and optimal chosen to stay with Christ, no rely what the church did. He enjoyed his church and was hoping to lead the church back to the scriptural truths. it relatively is why he nailed the ninety 5 theses to the door..... statements of issues that have been incorrect and the scriptures to assist his statements. terrific desires on your added learn. Oh.... and promoting little bottles of "Mary's surely breast milk" became slightly lots.... even for the middle a while. The Catholic church at that element became approximately funds and capacity.... and that they raked it in by making use of deceiving the folk. Luther knew it. Sue

Answer 7

Awesome. Or how Father Martin Luther, when his Deacon spilled the Holy Chalice on a chair in the Sanctuary ordered the chair burned??

Answer 8

Obviously, he changed his mind and concluded that the Church was beyond repair. Which, all things considered, was not an unreasonable conclusion.

Answer 9

Luther didnt hate Catholicism? So? I dont hate it either but that doesnt mean I think I should be Catholic.

Answer 10

Lets face it, the man wasn't exactly sane when he took his flock away from the catholic church