the fallacy is that god knowing, would infringe on the free will.
knowing does *NOT* mean its predetermined, its just known ahead of time.
ifyou give someone a math equation that you know that they are capable of figuring out, and have no reason to deliberately get it wrong... you know what the answer is, and that they will give that answer.
if you know that they will deliberately get it wrong, you can predict that as well. if you know them well enough you might even guess what their deliberately false answer will be.
if you traveled back in time, the fact that you KNEW someone would do something, because it was the past for you before you traveled back, does not change their free will in doing so.
God knows all the variables, and thus everything is absolutely predictable.
and God is outside of time, and thus not subject to the limits of chronological order.
Ragdefend, "all things have their time and reason"
2006-12-14 12:30:11
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answer #1
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answered by Anonymous
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I'm sure there are many fallacies in the bible, but I'm not sure that this is one.
I think it could be possible for an all-powerful all-knowing god to allow free will, but it logically leads to an unappealing kind of god. Perhaps god just ignores all prayers and doesn't really care how people behave.
In an attempt to argue that god can be all-powerful and all-knowing, and yet man has free will, some theists say that god just allows man to make his own decisions. What they overlook is that an all-powerful god wouldn't HAVE to allow man to make bad decisions or be evil. This is essentially saying that god allows evil even though god could prevent it!
What do you think about a god who could easily prevent evil but chooses not to do so?
Certainly this is a logical dilemma for any theist who believes their god is benevolent and all-powerful.
2006-12-14 12:44:11
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answer #2
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answered by HarryTikos 4
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"No there is another." - Yoda.
If God were omnipotent (all powerful, not merely all knowing) then he had the power to stop every evil thing that man does to an innocent. Why doesn't he? Either he couldn't or doesn't want to? (What other possibilities exist). And so, yes he is responsible for the choices we make even if we had free will to do it.
So how do we explain that little children, infants are thrown on a bayonet or gassed by chemical weapons, or burned by napalm? What sort of god allows these atrocities! And all for the sake of giving man free will, he lets infants of no will of their own suffer! Couldn't this God's value judgement be more faulty?
RW: Very good answer. But often the correct reasons are the simpler more obvious ones.
And I know Yahoo isn't showing it but my nickname is "Ragdefender". :-)
2006-12-14 12:24:21
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answer #3
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answered by ragdefender 6
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That is a common assumption but we forget that God has free will too... God can be everywhere at once, but sometimes He chooses not to be some places. He can create everything or anything but has chosen not to create everything there is to create. He does not need to rest, yet He chose to. Now, free will involves God choosing not to know the outcome of every choice every man has from day one. That doesnt mean He CANT know, but choosesn not to. If God saw me thousands of years before I was born and knew every mistake Id make, then I cant choose not to make that mistake because He already knows the outcome right? Exactly, thats how come Calvinsism (the belief in total predestination) doesnt do well in most churches. Arminianism teaches free will and man makes his own choices however there are very few that will say that God may choose not to know the outcome of something before it happens. They think its makes Him less "God" but it doesnt any more than the fact that even though He CAN be everywhere at all times, sometimes He is not.
This is not to say that God doesnt know the outcome of ANYTHING but I believe that many of our decisions, God doesnt peek before hand and lets us decide for ourselves.
You might want to read up on Open Theism.. may find it interesting.
2006-12-14 12:27:49
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answer #4
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answered by impossble_dream 6
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No there is no fallacy in a genuine holy books given by Allah such as Zabur,Torakh/Taurat,Injil/Bible and the last Al Qur'an..Humans are given a free choice and free will for taking any action.But hu- mans should know its consequences if they selected the wrong
doings.God has given us a life guide that has been written in the holy books in line with the development of its soceity.That is why God has updated its life guide since Zabur in David era up to Al Qur'an in Muhammad pbuh era.God knows all everything Yes humans can not change what have been predecided or decreed by God.But all humans do not know what have been predecided or predecreed by God for them.Humans should always try to ma
ke their own fate or destiny.Humans are free to select good doing
such as earning a permitted income by no cheating,no gambling
,no cheating,no corruption and expending their income to the right ways that have been instructed in holy books such as for cost of living of their own family,for helping others,for donation or alms ,for development of schools or churches or mosques
,helping the poors and orphans etc.But humans can also select the wrong path for their expending that are prohibited by God such as gambling,eating bacon/pig meat,bribe,killing others
,adultery/fornification,attacking/invading other nation, insulting etc.
God has given the warnings that humans who selected the wrong path they will have sins and can be brought to hell.But God gives us also the way for asking forgiveness from Him.
So there is the free will and its consequences..
2006-12-14 13:06:34
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answer #5
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answered by ? 7
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God does know everything. He knows everything that will ever happen. He has a plan for all of us. He loves us enough to give us free will. Think about it. It means more and it's much more genuine for us to freely choose to believe, love, and live for God...rather than God determining that everybody will automatically do what is right in every situation. We would just be like robots then.
2006-12-14 12:18:37
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answer #6
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answered by Anonymous
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Omnipresent or Omniscient, God is both! Is not all knowing predestinarian) but more all seeing (presensory). God observed Adam and Eve (representing early humans) to see if they would eat of the tree of knowledge, namely Carnal knowledge or if you will, if they would experiment sexually. They did. there is no indication that he knew they would, but rather he did react to what they chose to
do.
In this, just one of many allegorical exeples in the bible, we see that God clearly allows us free will, then reacts to our choices. He then is all seeing. Not all controlling. Because he/she chooses to be. Remember that tho' the bible is full of great history and living examples and lessons, it was originally conceived for a more simple, less literate people of another time.
This does not render, it though; in any way useless or less important. If we look at it with our intelleigence (God Given) we can see that each day can really be thousands of years or millions and still be consitent with Genesis, but then also with Science. Creation and evolution can co-exist and are therefore not mutually exclusive to one another. God allowed those with less abitly, etc and still does allow them that to see it in more literal terms. He also allows the more educated and curious to see it more figuratively, but still relevently.
God Bless ++
2006-12-14 12:32:05
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answer #7
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answered by rumbler_12 7
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Knowing everything doesn't mean "controlling everything". I'll relate to you the story of Joseph in the Old Testament - God knew that Joseph's brothers would throw him in the well, but God did not throw Joseph in well, and you can't blame God for not making the well disappear so Joseph couldn't be thrown into it. God knew that the wife of Joseph's master would try to enter adulterous relations with Joseph, but God was not the one trying to tempt Joseph and you can't blame God for letting the master's wife live. Then Joseph was put in prison because of the woman's deceit, but God himself was not the deceiver, and you can't blame God for not destroying the prison before Joseph was put into it. Because all these things just led to Joseph gaining prominence in Egypt and saving them from a massive famine, and ultimately saving his family. Since God was all-knowing, he let all those things happen to Joseph because he knew that in the long term, good would come about.
God only interfers in this world through Providence, chosing when and why to intervene. But perhaps he lets bad things happen merely to give us a chance to show charity to our brethren; like is someone is extremely poor God could either let them win the lottery or give people a chance to be charitable and give for themselves. God won't gain anything from letting people all over the world win the lottery, so by having people in dire circumstances it is actually a call for the good people of this world be show charity. Then maybe God will bring about a multitude of blessings.
As to your last comment, about man not being able to change what God already knows, well that is correct but man does not know what God already knows. For instance I don't know when I will get a haircut next, but God does, but I still don't know so I still, from my perspective, make the choice on my own. It may be tomorrow it may be a month from now, I don't know. So that argument that man cannot change what God knows is irrelevant because we still do make our own choice.
To put it simply - God knew you were going to put that question on Yahoo Answers, he could have made Y!A bug out and for you to be unable to post questions, but he did not make you ask anything. You asked that question on your own free will although God knew you would do it, and had the power to stop you, but he choses not to intervene.
2006-12-14 12:33:40
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answer #8
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answered by Anonymous
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God is outside of time. Therefore, He can see what we 'did' before we did it. Kinda like watching the Rose Bowl on tape. While the game is in play, anything can happen. But once it's on tape, those free will decisions are known before they 'happen'.
2006-12-14 12:17:29
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answer #9
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answered by Anonymous
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I think God knows the possible outcomes to every decision we make, but we make the decisions. And even if God knows what we are going to do, it doesn't make Him responsible. I know that certain people aren't going to agree with my opinion. It doesn't mean I made them disagree. Do you really think we are just God's puppets? This wouldn't make sense.
2006-12-14 12:16:02
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answer #10
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answered by Tiffany 3
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