Jews? How do you know?

Question

To follow up with the last question I posted at http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=An6Rp_ANNoE_ANhkU1IVAznsy6IX?qid=20061212005536AAXw3sR
I see what you believe, but where in the bible does it talk about all the things you say. Nobody listed any scripture to back up what they are saying. I have read many prophecies about Jesus being the Messiah and they all seem to make sense. I actually have a list if anyone wants to see I will add, but there are too many and I doubt people want to see them. One real question was the point that the messiah must be a descendant of david (which Jesus is, and please don't think i am trying to argue his side), but then you said it must be on the fathers side. Why must it be on the Fathers side? I don't remember God specifying that in the bible. Also, do Jews still sacrifice rams and bulls for their sins? Jewgirl said jews don't believe the world needs "saving," so everyone goes to heaven? What do we need a savior for if not to be saved?

Also, I do not understand the argument about the second coming. How will there not be a second coming if the bible says the messiah will die? I saw this website about the second coming, what d you think? http://www.gotquestions.org/second-coming-Jesus-Christ.html

Unfortunately, there are people like Dennis and Rev. I am trying to get REAL answers. This is not an argument. I just want to know the truth and see all sides. I will not be ignorant and judge something if i do not know everything about it. If there was someone out there trying to seek the truth, hopefully you wouldnt try to hide it. I have one more question to add as well. What happens if you believe in Jesus and he is not the true Messiah? Also, what will happen if you don't believe in Jesus and he is the true Messiah?

Jew girl, you sound like you are backing up Jesus? In Isaiah 53:3 it says, "He is despised and rejected by men, a Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him...." if everyone knows that the Messiah has come so clearly as you all say, why would they despise and reject Him. Also, Isaiah 53:9 says, "And they made His grave with the wicked- But with the rich at His death, because He had done no violence, nor was any decit in His mouth. Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin,..." It says he dies and is made an offering for sin. I am lost at your points? It really sounds like Jesus to me.

Also what does Coniah's curse have to do with Josiah? When God curses Cane for killing his brother was his father also cursed? Coniah is not a part of the lineage, his father is. It says Josiah begot Jeconiah and then begot Shaltiel. Where is Coniah in the line?

As for tonks. I am not trying to get them to say it is Jesus. I am trying to figure out what is right and so far I haven't been able to argue with Jesus. It seems to me though that everything else seems to have faults. I am just trying to figure everything out. I think you are ignorant and foolish if you just automatically believe everything you hear.

Here you contradict yourself. When you say "He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7) " and then you say "isaiah 53 is not a messianic prophecy. that entire chapter is talking about the fate of the jews. we know this because isaiah says it throughout his entire book. he identifies israel as the servant only about a million times. the problem with christians is that they only open the "old testament" long enough to look at the passages they are told refer to to jesus and ignore the rest. isaiah 53 is continuing from the specific prophecy started in isaiah 52:" You say first the it is talking about the Messiah as a messenger of peace and then say that it is referring to israe. What specifically makes something a "messianic prophecy"? Also, I read the bible before ever getting answers from other people. Starting with the OLD TESTAMENT. Luckily for me I was not corrupted or influenced by being brought up in a certain cirumstance. I came to my conclusions by reading.

Honestly, I think saying Isaiah 53 is not talking about a specific person, is being very closed minded

WOW, I just clicked the link by Namesaremuch. That is some pretty twisted ideas. Talk about trying to take something and make it look bad. Interesting, but I think there is too much hate to believe it. It totally takes what people believe and are trying to do and twists their words. Nevermind, I don't even need to explain, just read it. You will know exactly what I am talking about.

Answer 1

the messiah is not going to be a savior of anybody. thats a christian concept that arises from outside influences, not judaism.

here are some prophecies about the messiah and the messianic age:
The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)
Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)
The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)
He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8-10)
The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)
Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)
Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)
He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)
All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)
He will swallow up death forever (Isaiah 25:8)
There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)
All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)
The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)
He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)
Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)
For My House shall be called a house of prayer for all nations (Isaiah 56:3-7)
The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)
The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)
Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)
The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvot
He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together, as it is written (Zephaniah 3:9)
Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33)
He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9)

as for him being descended through the father, the reason is because according to jewish law established by G-d in the torah, royal and priestly lineage is passed down through the male line, and never the female.

as well, according to the genealogy presented by matthew, jesus can definitely NOT be the messiah. the reason is because the word messiah means annointed one, aka king of the jews. however according to matthew's geneaology, we see that jesus is descended from jeconiah/jehoachim:

matthew 1:11: And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: (KJV)

in the book of jeremiah, G-d curses this line, and declares that none of the descendants of jeconiah/jehoachim will ever be king:

Jeremiah 22:24 [As] I live, saith the LORD, though Coniah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah were the signet upon my right hand, yet would I pluck thee thence; [25] And I will give thee into the hand of them that seek thy life, and into the hand [of them] whose face thou fearest, even into the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, and into the hand of the Chaldeans. [26] And I will cast thee out, and thy mother that bare thee, into another country, where ye were not born; and there shall ye die. [27] But to the land whereunto they desire to return, thither shall they not return. [28] [Is] this man Coniah a despised broken idol? [is he] a vessel wherein [is] no pleasure? Wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not? [29] O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD. [30] Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man [that] shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah. (KJV)

therefore jesus, according to the geneaology presented by matthew, cannot be the messiah.

EDIT

isaiah 53 is not a messianic prophecy. that entire chapter is talking about the fate of the jews. we know this because isaiah says it throughout his entire book. he identifies israel as the servant only about a million times. the problem with christians is that they only open the "old testament" long enough to look at the passages they are told refer to to jesus and ignore the rest. isaiah 53 is continuing from the specific prophecy started in isaiah 52:

isaiah 52:13. Behold My servant shall prosper; he shall be exalted and lifted up, and he shall be very high.

who is the servant? how about instead of listening to church fathers, you listen to isaiah himself:

isaiah 41:8. But you, Israel My servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham, who loved Me

isaiah 44:21. Remember these, O Jacob; and Israel, for you are My servant; I formed you that you be a servant to Me, Israel, do not forget Me.

isaiah 49:3. And He said to me, "You are My servant, Israel, about whom I will boast."

those are some examples of isaiah clearly saying who the servant is. conclusion: israel is the servant. this chapter doesn't even refer to any messiah.

"Unfortunately, Jewgirl contradicted herself."

please, enlighten me how i contradicted myself. i noticed that, not surprisingly, you didn't explain any further but truly, i'd love to hear it.

Answer 2

Unfortunately, Jewgirl contradicted herself. She, like many others, has twisted the Word of God to fit her own liking. Jesus is the Messiah and He was rejected and even hated by the Jews. Thus fulfilling prophesy that He would be despised and rejected by His own people.

Don't let the haters get you down. You are asking very valid questions and doing so in a respectable manner. You are not being rude or hateful and YA is exactly the place for these kinds of questions. Knowledge is power. Jesus said you shall know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free. He also said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father but by ME." Keep asking questions. You need to truley know who Jesus is.

Answer 3

I can not answer for the Jews, but everything does not have to be written in the Bible. Some things are written in other books where the Rabbis and Holy Scholars discussed things of the Bible, in much the same way as Christian theologians do.

The lineage of a Jewish child is from the mother, not from the father. Mary was of both the line of David and of Levi, the priestly line.

Also it seem that you are asking the Jews to explain how they will know when the Messiah comes and their answers seem plausible, but you seem to want them to somehow acknowledge Jesus as Messiah in the same answer, which can not happen. The two of you are not on the same page here and are never going to be. Their answers seem perfectly natural and plausible to me. I do not understand what part of their answer you don't get.

Answer 4

you want scripture?

ok how is this.
Ezekiel Chapter 37 verses 24-28
And David my servant shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. they shall also follow My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob my servant, in which your fathers have dwelt and they shall dwell there, they and their children, and their children's children forever; and my servant David shall be their prince forever. Moreover, I will make a covenant of peace with them, it shall be an everlasting covenant with them, which I will give them; and I will multiply them and I will set my sanctuary in the midst of them forevermore. And my tabernacle shall be with them: and I will be their G-d and they will be my people. Then the nations shall know that I am the L-rd who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary will be in the midst of them forevermore.



Where have we ever been at a time when

"they shall all have one shepherd. they shall also follow My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them"



And they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob my servant, in which your fathers have dwelt and they shall dwell there

Most Jews in jesus time did not live in Israel.


and finaly what everlasting covenant of peace? Have you looked out the door? The world has had more war in the last 2,000 years!


Jesus did not bring about any of the things decribed in Ezekiel and there is no place in the Hebrew scripture that says the Messiah will die and then come back and do everything

Answer 5

Because they are Jews, The only reason they are Jews is because their religion is Judaism. Judaism is what makes a Jews Jewish. Jew is not a race or nationality no scripture states Jews are my people or my people the Jews.

Judaism is not of the scriptures and goes against God law. Therefore Judaism is not Of Yah or by Yah, and through this religion all men were deceived.

Answer 6

I dont think Jews care, or Muslims, or atheists. Being Jew gets you into a special club, just like being part of triple A. I think they care more about that than their soul.

Answer 7

I guess I should of payed more attention to my Rabbi..but I'm just an ethnic Jew now...= )

Answer 8

I think you are an anti-Semite who enjoys Jew-baiting. Do you really think Yahoo! Answers is the right venue to discuss matters like the ones you always bring up?
Go and talk to a Rabbi if you really want to know about the doctrines and traditions of Judaism.

Answer 9

Some links that will help you:
http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/jesus_similar.html
http://members.aol.com/ckbloomfld/bepart12.html#ref1215

Answer 10

Get meds. Operators are standing by.