Atheists: Are you an atheist because you because you have seen no proof?

Question

I am trying to determine, from a theological standpoint, if it is "common" for atheist to simply have a profound loss of hope for the Kingdom of Heaven. Or if it is something else.

I didn't even mention the Bible.

DrEvol: You don't really understand Catholic theology so well. For one, man, is necessarily composed of body and spirit, thus, it is not a religion that so much wants to divide the two, although, possibly, on Earth it may seem like a noble goal.

Second, most religions believe in a forgiving God, and thus, if we sin, we should rejoice in the goodness of God that we can be forgiven.

Third, we can prove the God's law on sin in a humanist format. Because of this, we are becoming a secular humanist society, as our knowledge increases. Unfortunately, this leads to laws that accomodate man to an unhealthy extent, especially, when we do not educate on the more radical interpretation of sin, and their scientific sense.

That's plenty for now.

I was, at first, being understood, but those who answered later, seemed to have taken some offense.

Must I defend myself?

I said "loss of hope for the Kingdom of Heaven," which is not like loss of hope for your life.

There seems to be an unfortunate predjudice in this forum. Do I blame the atheists?

No, I think judgemental Christians and their lack of respect are the most likely culprits.

Answer 1

Religious people cannot apply the principles in which they believe consistently or coherently. The reason is simple: if they want to live productively and happily their principles do not work in this reality. In order to live, they are constantly besieged and haunted by the problem of sin or achieving enlightenment, perfection. A sin is nothing more than a violation of what one believes to be right.

Having set themselves up for absolute failure in this life, but unable to live as pure “souls” without a body, they imagine that the next life, where only the “spirit” lives, will not give them so much trouble – that’s Paradise for them. This kind of philosophy is rooted in the fallacy of the false alternative that sin is a necessary corollary of the physical world, and purity is a necessary corollary of the “spiritual” world. This is why we believe that it is impossible to live pure and free of sin as long as we have the body – the body violates purity. But the dichotomy of body and soul, the separation of the individual into two warring entities within oneself can only produce constant anxiety and a desire to seek peace, beauty, love, freedom in an imaginary world devoid of pain and challenges.

The mind-body dichotomy is the essential logical fallacy of all faith-based philosophies. Since no amount of wishing, hoping, praying, believing in supernatural forces, in God or gods can make us live as pure souls on earth, we are doomed to constant violation of our own principles. Very few ask themselves the question whether such mind-body dichotomy is actually real. Very few have the patience to look at themselves and see themselves as an inseparable individual, a unit made of mind (their consciousness) and perfectly integrated with the physical body. If one could, even for a moment, abandon the irrational idea that there can actually exist an intelligent, volitional living body separate from its consciousness, and a consciousness that feels and thinks while living somewhere separate from a physical body, the riddle would be solved.

In that moment of lucidity, they would discover that it is impossible to find bodies without consciousness of any kind. Animal bodies or human bodies devoid of consciousness are just corpses. Equally, it is a figment of human imagination (which is capable of many creative mental tricks) to think that the soul (consciousness) of dead bodies can be actually found floating around somewhere with intact emotions, sensations, memories, free will, knowledge, wisdom, beatitude, and a thousand other attributes that we can only experience with our own consciousness right here on earth, if we have a biologically functional body!

Religions are faith-based philosophies, that is, philosophies that teach the erroneous belief that what one feels inside is independent from the physical world and one’s brain. In that belief one is taught that when one feels love for God, it comes from God not from his own mind. So, statements like Jesus Loves You, Allah is Great, God is Everywhere, can be felt as very strong acts of faith, but they are empty of meaning because they cannot be tied to reality. To bypass this obvious problem, religious precepts will tell you that your faith has to be strong and that meaning comes from the strength of your faith. This is another way to say we don’t want to know if it is true that God is Everywhere, that Allah exists and he is Great, that Jesus is still alive as a ghost and if his main concern is still to save the world, and if he cares about us in particular – these are not important questions. The strength of your faith is what counts! Once all the questions are brushed under the carpet, we can safely believe that what we FEEL is right and true: yes, now I begin to feel Jesus in me!

Now, from this point on one would think that it will be Jesus’ responsibility (or Allah’s, of Vishnu’s, or one of the 2500 gods that were invented) to guide me to live this life correctly. All I have to do is have a STRONG FAITH, right? Will that give me the certainty that I will be guided correctly through my life? Will I have any guarantees that all my decisions will be right if I rely in a very, very STRONG faith? Don’t we constantly pray to be delivered from evil, so that the ethereal entity in which we believe will protect us from doing or receiving evil? And what is the practical result? You are back at the starting point. Instead, you are told that you are responsible for your actions, you have the free will to act in any way you decide, and you have to use your mind, your consciousness to guide your body to do right and avoid evil.

So, in the end, after all this indoctrination, which usually starts with children, that we must have an exceptionally STRONG FAITH to do right and be good while we live, what really works is my reasoning ability, my critical faculty. Since the logical or illogical premises or principles which I adopt are actually the blueprint for my reasoning ability, the guidelines for how my mind will tell my physically body to behave in life, it is important to pay attention to whether the principles and ideas I receive and choose to adopt are actually rational or irrational because they ARE my consciousness, and my consciousness is inseparable from my physical actions and experiences. The content of my consciousness is everything I accumulated through my life experiences up to this moment. This is why you will never hear of a devout Christian having visions, not of Jesus, but Vishnu talking to him in his dreams, or answering his prayers. For the same reason, after intense fasting and praying, it would be truly miraculous if an isolated Buddhist monk might end up having visions of the Vergin Mary, or Saint Patrick, instead of the Buddha!

Answer 2

Hi, thanks for asking. The lack of evidence is a major reason that I am an atheist. It's not necessarily a lack of "proof" though, it's more of a lack of any indications at all that gods exist.

And it has nothing to do with a loss of hope. I really don't hope that there will soon be sufficient evidence of god(s).

It is more of a whole different world view. Imagine, if you can, that there is/are no god(s). If you start to ask how it is that various world events and scientific findings occur, it will make much more sense if you assume that there is/are no god(s).

The theory of god(s) is far too complicated and unlikely. Evil exists, non-belief exists, pain and suffering exists. Why would a benevolent god allow such things?

In all history, there has never been a logically sound argument that god(s) exist(s). And since buddhists, atheists, and other non-theists have shown that man really has no need for god(s), then it simply doesn't make sense to be a theist.

I'm trying to be as honest and open as I can here without being offensive. Hope it helps.

Answer 3

From what I can see, based on posts here, it's from bad experiences with religion combined with a belief that religion opposes deep or wide thinking, which is true to a small section or the past heritage.

Islam and Catholicism stiffled science. We have to accept this. We know the DARK ages existed and we know that Arabs were once brilliant and today they are stupid as rocks.

Does religion play a factor. Absolutely. SOME religious leaders want people as stupid as rocks, be they Catholics, Protestants or Islamics.

Iran HAS to get their SCIENCE from PAKISTAN, because the Aytollah made Iran as stupid as rocks.

Right now they are PURGING LIBERAL TEACHERS in college.

Who MAKES all the scientific advances, conservatives or liberals. Anyone will tell you the LIBERAL makes more advances.

So if you get rid of the Liberals you get rid of the free-thinkers. The "Einsteins."

Does religion do this, yes, it has and in some instances still does.

Is all relgion today this way, NO. Some of the MOST MAJOR scentific advances CAME from CATHOLIC THEOLOGAINS

Big Bang
Genetics

BOTH CATHOLIC

I'm not a Catholic, by the way. In fact I don't like the religion very much but these things are FACTUAL.

Einstein said something about Religion without Science being droll and Science without Religon being equally droll.

This man is right.

Science EXPLAINS THINGS

Religion embraces things

Religion gives us Genesis

Science gives us Big Bang which EXPLAINS GENESIS

It tells us HOW GOD DID IT

Religion TELLS us about GOD

Science EXPLAINS HOW GOD DID IT ALL

God and JEsus said WE CAN DO EVERYTHING THEY DO

We are GODS

Einstein proved it. He proved WE could do to Hiroshima what GOD did to Soddom and Gomorah

Atheists are to ANTI-RELIGION what the 700 club is to Religion.

Both are extremists who deny the median ground.

In the movie Jurassic Park the mixture of GOD and SCIENCE is clear

Science WANTED TO SEE IF IT COULD IT but NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT SHOULD IT DO IT

Einstein thought we COULD make the A BOMB

But he NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT WOULD WE USE IT until we were about to, then he emplored us NOT TO

A BOMB is NOT A BOMB until we let it be a BOMB

One day SCIENCE will TRY to CREATE LIFE

Will that LIFE kills us all off! IT could.

DARWIN could be right. WE may not be selected, but our CREATION may replace us.

Will ATHEISTS be proud of that, if THEY ARE NO MORE and the NEW SPECIES that might ahve six hand, two heads, fifteen eyes TAKES OUR PLACE

Science says WHAT IF

Religion says IS IT RIGHT

It's a balancing act.

Without the CODE of MORAL JUDGEMENT we do what we want.

We DROP the bomb on HIROSHIMA

Like it or not we DID THAT

Like it or not ONE DAY SCIENCE WILL MAKE A LIFE FORM

Intellegent Design is only 500 to 1,000 years away!

What will the MAN/GOD do when that creation is FLAWED

Genocide!

What will MAN/GOD do when his CREATION goes AGAINST HIM and DENIES HIM

What do you do when you CREATE LIFE and that life is ADOLPH HITLER or GHENGIS KAHN or STALIN

What do you do, when that LIFE takes LIFE, including YOUR OWN

Answer 4

I have never felt more 'free' since stepping over the line and 'coming out' about my atheism after being forced to attend religious services in the military.
Atheism for me is freedom. It is nothing more nor is it anything less.
The concept of there being all this 'magic' around us is simply untenable. I don't want proof or evidence. I already have my mind made up and it has been the same now for fifty years.

I actually pity those who believe in any god. They must be short of some brain cells. Indoctrination as children, when they will believe anything that an adult tells them, is to blame for the perpetuation of this myth and, into adult life, they are just mindless sheep.

If you are religious but open-minded and really wish to take an alternative view on board, try www.godisimaginary.com and then come back with any answer that isn't based on mumbo-jumbo. Cop-out responses are worth nothing. The standard jesus-freak rhetoric just doesn't stand up to analysis any more than the bible does.

ATHEISM - IT'S THE ONLY LOGICAL CHOICE.

Answer 5

I don't hope for things that I know can't happen. Also, I find it interesting that you only mention hope of heaven, and fail to mention hell. The Old Testament portrays Yahweh as a petty and vengeful god. I'm glad I know he's a myth and don't have to risk an eternity to his whims.
*** Edit ****
Ok I see you aren't the hellfire and damnation type. Good for you. I generally answer people who bring up Pascal's Wager by saying that if in the unlikely event there really is a god and an afterlife, then the god is probably way more compassionate and forgiving than Yahweh. I think such a god would accept that I tried to form my beliefs based on evidence and rational thinking, and would forgive me for doubting her existence when she provided no evidence for it.

Answer 6

I'm an agnostic because I've seen no proof. I simply do not know whether God exists or not, and enjoy poking holes in the arguments of both sides.

But I do wish I was convinced that there is a benevolent God, just for the sake of my peace of mind. So far all I have is that Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are inherently contradictory with themselves (can't have eternal torment - or, in the case of Judaism, eternal nothingness - juxtaposed with love, mercy, or justice, or any combination of the three)... Not much help there.

Answer 7

You bring up an interesting point... and your follow up points are also intriguing.

As Devil's Advocate - I will point out what I see as obvious - you are mixing faith with objective fact. In doing so, you are, essentially, mixing oranges with steaks. There is no commonality and as such, your question, however interesting, is intrinsically invalid.

Those who adhere to a particular belief system, a religion, by definition, are driven by faith.

Atheists, as a rule, are driven by science, which, in direct opposition to faith, adhere to that which is scientifically provable.

At the most basic, one (religion) is based on the unobservable, the unprovable.

The other, atheism, is based on that which can be demonstrated, observed, codified.

I guess perhaps there are those who have 'faith' in atheism, though I'm not certain as to how that might work.

Peace,

-dh

Answer 8

I am not an atheist simply because of a lack of proof.

I am an atheist because of the blood that has been shed in the name of imaginary beings.

I am an atheist because of the limits placed on scientific research for the sake of preserving a fairy tale understanding of the world.

I am an atheist because the church continues to control and manipulate the minds of millions

I am an atheist because religion contradicts its self endlessly, lacks any solid proof, and skews man kinds perception of the truth.

Answer 9

Kid, this is the kingdom of heaven, right her and right now. OR it is hell. As you make it, as you choose it.
Your concept of Heaven is my concept of hell. I do not want to spend a day with Jerry Fallwell or Pat Robertson, Jim or Tammy Faye, Oral Roberts or Jerry Lee Lewis' cousin. Eternity with these creeps would be hell. It might also be hell if i had to spend an eternity with other sniveling, groveling, haughty, self-righteous, condescending, narrow minded, pleasure hading, holier than thou, hypocrites,
What would we do all day? Eat? Sleep? Have sex? Christians don't do much of that except to have kids.
I think I's just rather be dead and fertilize a tree than live for an eternity. Unless of course it was to entertain God and his followers with my groans of agony as I burned for ever. Most Christians could get into that and I might like to put on a show.
Hell is going to be populated with many more interesting people than Heaven.

Answer 10

I don't believe in things for which there is no proof (evidence is really a better word, though). However, I don't think the "loss of hope" part is accurate. I never hoped for such a thing; it always seemed as much a fairytale as Neverland to me. I just accept that a thing with no evidence for its existence is more likely to be nonexistent.

Answer 11

There is not any proof that Jesus or Mary exist in these days. How can any individual who does not exist participate in intercession for you? People who do not exist can't do something. There is precisely the equal quantity of evidence of god as there's evidence of mary, 0.