8: And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before [Jesus] the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, WHICH ARE THE PRAYERS OF THE SAINTS.
-Revelation, chapter 5
3: And another ANGEL came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much INCENSE to mingle with the PRAYERS OF THE SAINTS upon the golden ALTAR before the throne.
-Revelation, chapter 8
2006-12-12 15:17:31 · 32 answers · asked by Anonymous in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
The saints that this is talking about are in heaven interceding for us. That is what this is talking about.
2006-12-12 15:21:29 · update #1
protestants have created their own biblical authority, absent from Christ's authority
2006-12-12 15:21:48 · answer #1 · answered by ben 2 · 3⤊ 7⤋
I've never ignored those verses... I also like the verse you left out...
Revelation 8:4 (KJV)
And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
I'm Pentecostal, which is a protestant denomination, and I believe that the word "saints" is actually all believers in Jesus Christ not just some people that the Catholic authorities have chosen to be saints. The New Living Translation agrees with me:
Revelation 5:8 (NLT)
And as he took the scroll, the four living beings and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp, and they held gold bowls filled with incense—the prayers of God's people!
Revelation 8:3-4 (NLT)
Then another angel with a gold incense burner came and stood at the altar. And a great quantity of incense was given to him to mix with the prayers of God's people, to be offered on the gold altar before the throne. [4] The smoke of the incense, mixed with the prayers of the saints, ascended up to God from the altar where the angel had poured them out.
Notice how it says "God people" instead of saints and the New Living Translation is a complete translation of the original Greek.
By the way, from what I understand, most of the Catholic religion is actually based on Roman mythology.
For instance, regarding Christmas, there is no evidence of the exact date of the birth of Christ. Considering the traveling required and that the birth took place in an open stable we can surmise that it was not in the middle of winter. The Holman Bible dictionary states that the date of December 25th was chosen for practical as well as theological reasons. Several festivals were held in conjunction with the winter solstice in the Roman Empire. One such festival was the Feast of the Unconquerable Sun which celebrated the return of the sun. "When Christianity was declared the religion of the Empire the church either had to suppress the festivals or transform them. The winter solstice seemed an appropriate time to celebrate Christ's birth. Thus, the festival of the sun became a festival of the Son, the Light of the world."
Oh, and for the record, Protestants don't ignore any verses in the Bible; we actually have a tendency to spend a lot of time studying them.
Edited on 12/13 - you just said that the saints it's refering to are those that are in heaven... not true... it doesn't say "the saints" it says "the prayers of saints". The saints are those who believe in Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior.
The believers in heaven won't be praying to God they'll be talking to Him.
2006-12-12 15:25:44 · answer #2 · answered by anastasia4470 3 · 3⤊ 3⤋
We don't ignore those verses. The Lexical Aids to the New Testament included in the Hebrew Greek Study Bible from AMG Publishers has the word rendered "saints" in Revelation 5:8 as the Greek word "hagios", meaning holy or set apart, sanctified, or consecrated. It's fundamental ideal is separation, consecration, devotion to the service of God, sharing in God'spurity and abstaing from the world's defilement". Since we are a peculiar people this sounds to me like it refers to all believers.
The same word is used in rev 8:3. If you have a Strong's Concordance, it's keyed as # 40.
2006-12-12 15:36:19 · answer #3 · answered by Maine-iac 3 · 0⤊ 1⤋
The saints can pray... and if you look at Revelation 6:9-11 you see they are calling for God to take revenge on their behalf because they cannot take it for themselves ( due to death and Deuteronomy 32:35). Not praying on our behalf.
but kudos to you! Most catholics i know don't even get into the word to prove their ground.
Revelation 6:9-11
9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Deuteronomy 32:35
To me belongeth vengeance and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.
2006-12-12 15:37:45 · answer #4 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
Where do you get this information from? I'm not a Catholic or a Protestant but a child of God who has accepted His Beloved Son Jesus Christ and one day I'll be a Saint in Heaven. All souls that have accepted Jesus Christ will one day be with God in Heaven.
There are no souls interceding for us in Heaven. Jesus Christ is our intercessor and no other. It is blasphemy to say otherwise.
You need to get out more and mingle with Christians. I'll just bet you'll learn something. Don't let religion get in the way of your salvation.><>
2006-12-12 15:31:36 · answer #5 · answered by CEM 5 · 4⤊ 2⤋
Protestants do not ignore them. Saints are defined as those who follow Jesus. The difference is that Catholics traditionaally designate only certain dead believers as "saints" However, the Canon of the Catholic Church defines all believers as "saints" certain saints are recognized as examples for the rest of us.
I grew up in the Catholic Church and still love and respect the Mother Church but my walk with God has lead me to be a Protestant minister.
I believe that all who love Jesus pray for others. I am strange because a believe that the followers of Christ who have died still pray for us. i do believe that my mother prays for me. However, I do not need to pray to saints who have died. I can talk to Jesus directly.
I am one of the saints, so those are my prayers reffered to in the Bible.
2006-12-12 15:33:06 · answer #6 · answered by dmjrev 4 · 1⤊ 1⤋
Because these two verse doesn't revere on praying to the saints (prayer of the saints and praying to the saints are two different things). But mainly the prayer of the saints, who died/martyred defending their faith to God's glory, holding up their own prayer to Jesus . This verse point to the part of what happened in heaven during the 7 years of tribulation on earth.
Saints are not God, they are human being who happened to be obedient to God. When they die, they die.. Their spirit goes to heaven, and the only way to pray is through Jesus..
2006-12-12 15:29:52 · answer #7 · answered by It's not about me 3 · 0⤊ 2⤋
No one doubts saints pray but they're not OUR prayers carried on the backs of saints. How could anyone POSSIBLY be living in eternal peace with people they dont even know sending them prayers every second for thousands of years that they are in turn supposed to pray for them also?? Doesnt sound like eternal peace to me, sounds more like eternal answering service.
2006-12-12 15:23:49 · answer #8 · answered by impossble_dream 6 · 0⤊ 1⤋
I am not Catholic, yet I use incense and consider myself a saint(as opposed to a sinner) when praying.
I Cr 13;8a
12-12-6
Technically all Christians are Saints, in the scriptural sense. I realize this may shock you, but there you are!
2006-12-12 15:20:58 · answer #9 · answered by ? 7 · 3⤊ 1⤋
I believe the difference is that Catholics believe they decide if someone was a saint or not after they die.
Most other denominations do not believe they can judge who is/was a saint or not.
Besides, these scriptures are about spiritual things (incense representing worship or prayer for example), not physical things.
2006-12-12 15:19:48 · answer #10 · answered by rusty.turkey2 2 · 1⤊ 1⤋
I read Revelation. I don't think Christians that aren't Catholic ignor these verses.
Saints are people who are born of God. Read the NT letters to the Saints (saint means holy and all true Christians are saints).
It is written that we are to be holy because our God is Holy.
2006-12-12 15:24:14 · answer #11 · answered by t_a_m_i_l 6 · 2⤊ 0⤋