Are arguments with Christians fruitless because their faith isn't based on logic or empirical evidence?

Question

,Can reasonable people have a sensible discussion with them?

Answer 1

Rarely it actually can. There are a few, that are not completely braindead. I know, if you spend much time on here, it's hard to believe!

Answer 2

You can argue with Christians, but it seems that you cannot argue with atheists or agnostics. Christians are always ready to discuss, but it seems that the other side's aim is to change the Christians' views. When this fails, as it should, then Christians are "labeled".

How can you state that "their faith isn't based on logic or empirical evidence? Many top scientists are Christians. There is a logic in Christianity which many will not see, because of their preconceived attitudes.

I am ready for any sensitive discussion, but if you start with "faith is not based on logic, etc", I am afraid we have a bad start, because I can claim the contrary. You cannot prove that God does not exist simply by stating that you cannot see Him. Think of the zillion things you have never seen, yet believe they exist, simply because science tells you so. Science has been known to say one thing, then contradict it the next time around, when new evidence comes to light.

Answer 3

Just because you dont see logic in their faith, or the evidence they see, doesnt mean they dont have evidence or use logic. To me, it seems terribly illogical to look at this universe and all the fine details in everything and think it "just happened" and nothing intelligent created it. There are evidences all over the place in favor of a Creator and Jesus, but its up to you to believe it or not, just like its up to me to believe evidence against such things. We both have faith baised beliefs, I have faith there is a God by the evidence I have seen and life experiences, so what He (in the Bible) says to me must be true. You have faith there is no God because of the evidence against Him and personal experience. You believe what science says must be true.

In the months I have been here and the amount of questions and answers I have seen, I have concluded that the same things that can be said for one side can be said for the other as well. So if you have trouble having a sensible discussion with a Christian, is it because you are acting the same way he is?

Answer 4

It's not right to post things like this, and can I have a sensible discussion with you? There are so many flaws in evolution, that you'd have to have alot of faith to believe it. Atleast Christians believe that it was a supernatural thing that happen when we were all created, and not a less logical natural thing. It just doesn't add up.

Answer 5

Yes you are right. I am a Christian and you can never convince me of anything else. I understand that the God of the Bible doesn't fit into a little logic box, because he is so much higher than we are that he does not act or think like we do. He is a supernatural God and we are mere mortals.
Isaiah 55:8-9 "My thoughts are completely different from yours" says the Lord. " And my ways are far beyond anything you could imagine. For just as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts higher than your thoughts."

Answer 6

It is impossible for born again christians to have any argument based on logic or empirical evidence as the premise of their belief is belief. If presented with evidence contrary to their belief they are really left with nothing, so they hold onto their beliefs even more tenaciously.

Answer 7

Hmmm. Read this:

Regarding St. Therese, in 1923 the Church approved of two spontaneous cures unexplained by medical treatment. Sister Louise of St. Germain was cured of the stomach ulcers she had between 1913 and 1916. The second cure involved Charles Anne, a 23 year old seminarian who was dying from advanced pulmonary tuberculosis. The night he thought he was dying, Charles prayed to Therese. Afterward, the examining doctor testified, "The destroyed and ravaged lungs had been replaced by new lungs, carrying out their normal functions and about to revive the entire organism. A slight emaciation persists, which will disappear within a few days under a regularly assimilated diet." These two miracles resulted in Therese becoming beatified.

from here:
http://www.littleflower.org/learn/faq.asp#4

There you go, evidence for Catholicism.


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It leads me to wonder if it is I who have no logical reason to reject or you. For, if you just toss any evidence given you, even physical evidence, then you aren't really looking to understand, but to be right. Right?

Your arguement is like this right:
It must have been something that we don't understand yet.

But if I tell you what the most people would call it, you reject it, in line with your religious beliefs. Right?

What sort of fruitful discussion are you looking for anyway?

Answer 8

If you're really, genuinely interested in this, I would recommend looking into Christian apologetics. It is based entirely on reason and logic. The people that teach and write Christian apologetics are very knowledgable scholars and are very interesting to talk to, even if you don't hold to Christian beliefs.

Answer 9

Faith requires only belief on something. That's why it's illogical for atheist to argue with theist and vice versa. But it's good as this creates magical stir on both sides. Both may learn something from each other through common sense alone.

Answer 10

Their faith is based on the fact that the world is too beautiful to have happened by chance. I feel there are too many languages, too many stories of creation from isolated peoples and too much mystery shrouding our past for it to have just been the flights of imagination of the human mind.

Answer 11

No I know plenty of Christians who provide plenty of logic and reason for their faith. Besides many athiests have flimsy arguments for their non-belief.