Have you ever heard of a failure to stop with the coveted .45cal.acp?

Question

Many people dog on the 9mm, 38spc, 380acp,.22lr etc; Poor manstopper.bad for self defense.yada, yada! However many people say the .45acp/1911(I love mine by the way),takes em' right down! Is it not possible that someone could get shot with a .45acp and have a failure to stop the assailant? Honestly, the difference in the circumfrence of the slugs is only like .10 give or take. Do you think that the stories are a little inflated maybe? Deer can be shot with a 30-06 and take a run before they die. Can some people suck up a couple .45 slugs, and not collapse in a heap like the stories you always hear? This is a good question for cops, Vietnam tunnel rats, WW2 vets, gangsters, and anyone else who has bared witness to the alegged .45 auto death ray! Thanks for your input my friends.Have at it!

Answer 1

Bound's hubby here:

If you expect an aggressor to go passive at the mere mention of a .45 ... wake up. The .45 has had instances where it was not a one shot stopper and that was due to poor shot placement. Hit an aggressor in the arm or the leg, they'll still keep coming if they have the limb. With a well placed center of mass shot the .45 can be a one shot stopper, but you need to put it where it will do the most damage.

The .45 has two things going for it, it's diameter and heavy weight. The large diameter will induce a higher level of shock which typically will incapacitate an aggressor (especially when there's a large flat surface on the nose of the bullet such as with the semi-wadcutter). Second is the .45's weight. The .45 fired at standard velocities creates sufficient momentum to crush bones. An abdominal shot can fracture the pelvis and the aggressor stops walking. A .45 hits the spine, bye-bye central nervous system. A .45 hits the shoulder, it will skim the bone and tear up the carotid arteries and other key arteries and the aggressor bleeds out. And we all can imagine what can happen with a head shot.

The .45 may have short comings, but I'll still go with the .45.

Good luck.

Answer 2

The .45 is a good stopper due to its bullet diameter. Now we have bullet designs that don't depend on bullet diameter. The .10mm, for example, has diameter (.40 cal) and velocity. The .357 Mag. doesn't really have diameter (.355) but is consider the best known man-stopper in the 125 grain hollow-point configuration. Now we also have the .357 Sig which on paper duplicates the stopping power of the .357 Mag.

The .45 will put a hole in the target the size of a dime with ball ammo. That is quite a feat. Does it fail to stop? Indubitably. It is relatively low-velocity and although it can be equated to 'throwing a brick at a person' (verses a hit from a slingshot by higher velocity smaller diameter rounds) some people high on drugs or alcohol simply don't 'feel any pain.'

In the Sixties I heard of a case where a suspect (high on 'something') with a machete came at a police officer with a 1911 .45acp. The officer backed up until bumping against his patrol car. Having no other recourse the officer fired his .45 once, striking the suspect in the chest. Witnesses stated that the suspect stayed in place for about 10 more seconds, machete high over his head menacing the officer. Then the suspect collapsed, but did not die and lived to stand trial.

H

Answer 3

that is a question for the ages the 45 ACP was developed to give better preformance than the 38 s that were used during the war with the Philipines. and earned a reputation from WWI through today as the premire self defense hangun. But yes as with anything nothing is 100% for sure I'm sure if you did a little research you could find many reports of people surviving being shot with a 45. You can also read stories of people dying instantly from one shot with a .22 . My persomal experiance in Iraq and now in Afghanistan would be find the biggest gun you can shoot an carry buy the best ammo you can find (topic for future question) then make every shot you shoot count as if your life depended on it because some day it just might.

Answer 4

There are plenty of failure to stop cases with solid hits from a .45. They are less rare than say 9mm, but still pretty frequent. There has beed peolple on drugs that have taken 4 .45 in the chest and kept on attacking only to stop when the 5 shot went into their head.

Answer 5

Yes. As has been stated, it's happens with everything.

You can get a different opinion on as many web page or people in the world that you care to visit.

The main thing is to get one (or more) that you can have with you when you need it (aka - all the time).
If you're going swimming, maybe a 22 derringer's all you can hide (well, didn't mean it that way...).

Yes, hit them in a vital area (the head's good if they're close enough).

Moreover, keep hitting them. You see on TV and films where they shoot once or twice and the guy drops. That's pretty stupid.

Once you decide to shoot, your situation is the same (legally, morally) whether you shoot them once or 15 times.
So, shoot for a vital shot (or as close as you can come to it) first, and fine-tune it as you empty up your weapon. Hopefully, they'll stop sometime in there.

Once they're down, reload if you've got it, but as long as they stay down, further shots at that point are frowned upon.

Answer 6

I know your just trying to stir up some controversy here and I applaud you for it!

The .45 acp, .50 A.E. and .700 Nitro Express are all fallible.

I personally know a vietnam vet who took a 7.62x39mm AK round to his head and lived with a nasty scar but no permanant dis-ability.

My .45 stops everything I once shot a woolly mammoth only to have the round go through him, kill six Tyranosaurs, sink the Titanic, make Hillary Clinton sexually attractive, and O.J. Innocent.

Nothing beats the .45 ACP when fired from a 1911!

Did you know the Air Force just replaced the F/A-22 Raptor with a flock of carrier pigeons carrying 1911s

Answer 7

The .45 acp like any other cartridge is not 100% successful. There is no magic caliber/bullet that can stop humans all the time and with one shot. Things are not like the movies guns don't propel someone backward, they don't instantly die, nor do they live for inhuman amounts of time, while shot in a vital organ or area.

Yes with the .45 it has happened and will happen. Sometimes you need more than one shot, and more than several especially with drugs involved. Although I hear good stuff about the .45 with police and drugged up attackers.

Most of the times a person will go down more so do to psychological reasons. He will realized he is hit and go down. Other times a hit to the spinal cord will result in rapid takedown. The .357 magnum is 75% with a head shot. People can still be active especially with a heart shot or lung shot more so with the lung shot. You can live off of one lung, a heart, it takes a little bit for the blood to be not oxygenated and not get to the brain.

Shot placement is key, if you miss with the .45 its not going to knock them down. Whereas if you hit em right a .32 is all you need or even a .22. The .45 is nice because it gives you a heavy bullet, at a slow velocity, transferring its power to the target and staying in the target. Plus, it is capable of some pretty scary things inside the body.
In my mind 3 shots of a .45 in a guy would just be hell if put in the right areas and better than 3 9mms.
Which will slow down if not stopping right away the attacker. Plus, the .45 was tested and proved useful in the Philippines against drugged up fanatical attackers. But, no caliber is an instant shot based on physiological reasons and often times the first shot will kill but you will shoot more due to the natural forward momentum of the assailant. Not realizing any difference that he is dead. Shot placement is key and at the turn of the century I think they had some good shots.
The 9mm is also better than it was and has some very good jhp loads, once they got away from the lower grain loads. The problem with the 9mm was it often went through and didn't transfer energy to the target much like an apr round does not producing a good wound cavity. Also the light loads in jhp expanded to soon, so in one instance sheriff officers shots suspect 6 times in the heart and the sternum stopped all the bullets before they got there. Shot placement is still key though! Today the 9mm loads aren't a problem.

Personally the 10mm people have a claim to the power aspect, but I don't think velocity is the killer, nor is the caliber either. You need a good bullet to make a good wound cavity and that will deliver shock. I have seen 9mm wound channels as big as .45 wound channels, but generally and most of the time the best .45s are better than the best 9mm loads available, in gel in math whatever it just works out that way. I personally suspect there is something else that ballistic gel and velocity doesn't tell us. Personally I advocate the slow freight train of the .45 approach, but don't feel under gunned with a .40 or 9mm. I own, carry and love the .45. But, also would carry if not a .45 my hi-power in .40. I think it does stop great, and there was reason why they picked the .45 for the caliber and a reason why it was used so successfully up to the gulf war in the military. I also think there is something to the reports in Iraq of the 9mm failing to stop, probably due to the fmj round. But, again shot placement is key. I would rather have, though, the biggest caliber that I can carry comfortably and am confident shooting with. This happens to be the .45, I don't consider the 10mm bigger, it has a smaller bullet and there is a question of all the velocity will be converted into energy or will it go through and do less damage? Plus it more expensive and I like the .45 version of the 1911 best.

There are certain myths about the .45 that have made it this man stopper, getting hit in the hand and going down etc. There are also myths about the 9mm especially not stopping etc. Most aren't true, it depends on ammo and shot placement. I have had wide varied results even with the high-power .30/06 because not using ammo right, that doesn't mean it didn't work, the animal still went down, it just I have seen better results using the right ammo! Shot placement is still key even when using bad ammo, but with good ammo and good shots it should stop. Maybe not the first time, but then again everyone is different. The .380 and .38spcl there are some truths to the power issue, on paper and in gelatin and I generally regard them as on the line or lower than for self-defense. They don't have as much penetration, but if hit right it will take the person down.

There are stories that are true either way, of a .22 taking someone down and a .45 not stopping people. There are also alot of stories of the .45 working well and due to its record there is no challenge. The SWAT teams all use .45 for reason, even when their sub-gun is a 9mm so they need two different types of ammo! Also, lots of departments are switching to the .45 or .40 from the 9mm also tells you something. Not that the 9mm is bad, but certain guys on drugs make the 9mm job difficult, and the 15 rounds in a guy or more doesn't look good in court and the tendency to use bad light loads or fmj loads can have bad performance in the 9mm. This doesn't exalt the .45 as manstopper but it is a good caliber in both fmj and jhp versions. It gives the officer control over ammo, 8 is better than 15 in the courts eyes and give less room for error, a .45 generally will stop with all the loads for it. Plus, I don't see how the courts get away with saying firing all 15 is bad, when you are on adrenaline the 15 rounds seems like eternity and like the guy doesn't stop, when in reality your first round may be good, but he was just moving forward or still breathing etc so got a few more seconds. Also, in reality you fired the 15 as fast as recoil/gun would let you go with accuracy. Courts don't understand that. I personally am a proponent of training to try to stop this, but it can't be stopped and police put their lives on the line every day and don't routinely kill. It is more successful with the military with more stable levels of adrenaline and the constant training that allows them not to shoot all 15. But, there are police officers and departments that have excelled at the feat and it looks a whole lot better in the newspaper that 6 rounds from 3 officers were in the guy rather than 30 to the normal uneducated voter.

(beginning of soap box)
Neither do the bureaucrats get it who say we need a small caliber due to nato or economical reasons. I am not opposed to the 9mm, but next time make it fair, consider all choices, and if the 1911 .45 wasn't broke? Why fix it? That is my pet peeve as my son is in Iraq, special forces, carries when he does carry a pistol the .45. It would have been better for them to order brand new .45s 1911s and cheaper and get rid of the "lesser quality world war models' (which all weren't that bad) and instead they went with beretta that had lots of breakages beginning and now the magazines jam. Although the army may have purchased bad magazines that means they have to buy new ones. A
ll that tells you something too, the 9mm ball fmj probably isn't the best, but not bad because some are happy with the 9mm. Shot placement is key and a good ammo for best results. We should have that on guns. BUt, my theory is give em good ammo or give a caliber that can perform with fmj; like the .45 which is proven to perform well with the fmj or jhp. And really was the .45 broke? What about these people fanatical on their warped views of their religion? Seems like a drug to me and they wont go down on their own. Hopefully we will realize like at the turn of the century in the Phillipines, where the .38 a different 9mm was seen as not useful enough. We might want to go with the .45 or at least some good loads int it. Screw international law we didn't fully sign anyways, we still use a form of napalm! Find a workaround for the jhp if you want the 9mm otherwise bite the bullet and do both with a .45.
(End of my soap box.)

Great question thanks for asking!!! Enjoy some controversy.

Answer 8

It's not the arrow, it's the Indian..'Shot Placement' is everything.