Ok, question?

Question

I recently saw a question that stated that Mithras (or whoever) was really born on Dec 25. The tone of the question was directed at how we Christians are wrong to celebrate Christmas on the day that is suspected to be the birthday of a diety that vanished centuries ago.

However, how can you know that you're right? The modern calander that we use was created in 1582 by Pope Gregory IX (or some number) who reformed the Julian calender, which in itself was not the original calander. Days and months have been moved and added for centuries until this point. So, no holiday is actually celebrated on it's original day (yes, not even Christmas and Easter).

So, I ask those who think that Mithras was born on the 25th. HOw do you know or is this just another smug attempt to boo Christians for our beliefs? The days have been moved around enough that you can have it completly wrong. For all you know, he was really born in the spring too.

kjelstad, then why not celebrate it on Winter Soltice.

Ronin, the question is how are you sure? Dec 25, the exact date, didn't exist back then. Dates were shuffled around because of the evolution of calanders.

Answer 1

Oh, oh, oh, I get to answer a Sister Steph question finally, I'm so happy and filled with a warm fuzzy feeling... maybe that was just my hot cocoa.... oh well...

Anyways lol, onto my answer, right? I know Sister Steph knows I'm a Druid and probably knows my take on this question already since we've talked a few times, but I'll answer it here anyways.

Like you said Steph, the modern calenders were built and constructed by Catholics during the Inquisitions of the 15th and 16th centuries when the Church was trying to convert the world into Catholism. They took holidays from different religions (like Yule, Samhain, Ostara, and Harvest from the Pagan religions) and turned them into celebrations of their own. This was done in an attempt to force the Pagans into the Catholic faith. Even the idea of "eve" like Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve were taken from the ancient Druidic belief that the new day began at sundown, instead of sunrise. This is one of the many reasons why I am a Druid, my celebrations are actual festivals, not a 16th century Catholic override of a Pagan holiday during the Church's frenzy to do away with all the ancient faiths. I follow the Coligny calendar as it follows the path of nature, not some dead pope's idea of a perfect Catholic-Only world.

Answer 2

It's definate that Christmas was picked on the 25th because it would appeal to pagans. But at the same time, it's been a few thousand years. People definately don't celebrate it with that thought in their heads. In this case the pagan ritual has been replaced with a positive Christ based holiday. Sure it isn't the real birthday of Jesus. But since we don't actually know when it is, why not pick a random day. Paganism is in Christmas's history, I'd say a bigger issue is commercialism sneaking in now days. I'd like to say if anyone is disturbed by the thought of pagans celebrating something on the same day as Christmas, and it bothers your conscience, then don't do it. It shouldn't be a doctrine or something you try to convict others about though.

Answer 3

I don't think the intent was to say that Christians should not celebrate Christmas on Dec. 25th. It was more in response to Christians criticizing people who celebrate something else other than Christmas. The point is that all our current traditions are hybrid and morphs from previous customs and cultures so why can't non-Christians celebrate the holiday season as the Solstice, Human Light, or whatever else?

The historical fact is that the early church superimposed the celebration of Jesus's birthday on preexisting customs in order to make it easier for people to convert while still maintaining preexisting customs. There are quite a few people today who choose to celebrate something other than Jesus's birthday on or around December 25th. I don't think there are many people who are against Christians celebrating Christmas they just wish Christians would cut them some slack about not celebrating it and celebrating something else instead.

Answer 4

Many, if not most, people of the time celebrated the birth of their god-man near the time of the solstice. Emperor Aurelian (270 to 275 CE) blended a number of Pagan solstice celebrations of the nativity of such god-men/saviors as Appolo, Attis, Baal, Dionysus, Helios, Hercules, Horus, Mithra, Osiris, Perseus, and Theseus into a single festival called the "Birthday of the Unconquered Sun" on DEC-25. At the time, Mithraism and Christianity were fierce competitors. Aurelian had even declared Mithraism the official religion of the Roman Empire in 274 CE. Christianity won out by becoming the new official religion in the 4th century CE.

By the beginning of the 4th century CE, there was intense interest in choosing a day to celebrate Yeshua's birthday. The western church leaders selected DEC-25 because this was already the date recognized throughout the Roman Empire as the birthday of various Pagan gods.

It never was the actual birthday of Mithra. Just like it's never been the birthday of Jesus

Answer 5

In 1AD, Rome had recently adoptded the Julian calendar. December 21 was the winter solstice. The Julian calendar was off by 3 days every 400 years. By the 1500's the error was pretty severe. The Gregorian calendar corrected the error, realigning December 21 to the winter solstice. The astromical link is solid -- four days after the solstice.

Answer 6

The exact date isn't as important as the day in question. From what I understand, when Christians moved into different areas where Pagans worshiped, they adopted the Pagan holy days and held their Christian observances on these same days. This served two purposes, to supplant the Pagan celebrations, and to make sure new converts attended the Christian events instead of their old Pagan ones. The priests could keep an eye on their converts and take note of who was absent and when. This was all before Big Brother and the cameras now employed but was just as effective in it's own way.

Answer 7

My holy days are the Winter Solstice, the Summer Solstice, the Spring and Fall Equinox and the days that are in the middle of those 4 days for a total of 8. My lesser holy days are the full moon, 13 per calender year. I don't think Pope Gregory IX is able to change those days as they are Solar and Luna based and not based on how wo/man perceive the world around them.

Blessed Be )O(

Answer 8

Christians just are always claiming that Christmas is exclusively their holiday. The fact is that most of the current celebration is really old Pagan traditions around the winter solstice on Dec 22. And that day is determined by nature, not the calendar.

Things like the tree, a yule log, etc. are NOT Christian.

I am an atheist and celebrate it. In the US it is nearly completely secular and it really is as much a US tradition as it is Christian. What we are saying is get over it. It is fine that you celebrate your religion with it, but you don't have (and never did have) exclusive rights to it.

Answer 9

To be honest, i don't know about mithras, but it doesn't worry me. This is the time of winter solstice. Also saturnalia. Both calculated using the stars and seasons, rather than calenders. Christianity did take this time to celebrate christmas because they thought they could push the pagan religions out, and attract more followers.

It makes no difference to me which particular religious event is observed, as long as people enjoy themselves, and try and be good to each other.

Answer 10

Mithras' birth date was picked to be the winter solstice. The winter solstice "back then" really was on "Decmber 25th", due to changing dates because of Milankovitch cycles ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles ). Just because someone changed the calendar doesn't mean the solstice doesn't occur in and around December 21/22nd.

Despite all this, we STILL know the Jesus wasn't born in December - no how, no way. Shepards don't watch their flocks by night in December in that region of the world. So, Mithras or no Mithras, Christianity totally ripped off the pagan's celebration of the winter solstice.