Is Larry Holmes the most underrated and Rocky Marciano the most overrated heavyweight champs?

Question

I think so. Give Marciano his due, he was tough, tenacious and unbeaten, but he was also small, crude and matched against average or aged competition.
Holmes, on the other hand, made twenty defenses to Mariano's six, mostly against younger guys.
He was bigger, faster and vastly more skilled than Marciano. He was also uncharismatic, combative and unlucky to succeed Ali's dominance of the division. Tough act to follow.
Marciano was well managed, exciting to watch, but most importantly, white.
Let's face facts, had he been a black heavyweight, he would not be nearly so highly ranked. The fact that he's the ONLY white heavyweight champ of any consequence is factored into his greatness.

Sorry guys, but none of the guys pre Jack Johnson can be counted as great fighters, as blacks were not able to compete for the title, thus, the title was watered down, not a true reflection of available talent, and none of the guys between Jack Johnson and Joe Louis can be counted as great, for the same reason - blacks were not allowed to fight for the title.

Bru - Marciano would not have been great in any era. He would have got crushed in the Ali, Frazier, Foreman era and been too small for the eighties or nineties heavyweights - could you honestly envision Marciano beating a vastly more skillful and BIGGER Evander Holyfield or a faster MUCH BIGGER Tyson?
Marciano might have made a splash at Cruiserweight, but that's about it.

Redeye - you know nothing about boxing. Zero losses...against who? Holmes would've destroyed Marciano.

Patrick - you make some excellent points and make a helluva case for Ezzard Charles, but I think you're wrong about Tyson. Tyson is still held up to mythical status only by the remaining (and there are still many) hard-core Tyson fans.
The rest of the thinking world see him in perspective.
Marciano, on the other hand, has garnered an almost supernatural status with the passage of time, when, in his time, he was seen as a crude, but exciting champ.
The question just seeks to put his place in history in perspective.

Answer 1

Most underrated? Easy. Ezzard Charles. How many times has he been brought up as anything other than a footnote among the best heavyweight champions ever, or simply one of the best fighters of that era? Not many.

Most overrated? At this point, probably Tyson. Dude's prime lasted approximately 11 minutes in about 1988 and people are still raving about him coming back to "fix" the heavyweight division.

Answer 2

You tend to ask a question and then completely answer it as to steer peoples answer in a direction. I would have said basically what you said in your details for my answer. I do disagree to some degree about the color, but not completely. Had Marciano been black, his legacy would have been the same, right up there with Louis, Ali and Johnson as some black fighter who made some kind of difference. It may have helped a little actually. In the case of Holmes, had he been white, yes, it would have been 100% different because he'd be the white pride beating all of the blacks... people may have hated Tyson (sooner) and Spinks too, evetually under rating them. If Marciano was black, and had a 49-0 record, I could absolutelly assure you a white Holmes wouldn't have lost via decision to Spinks on his 49th outing. Ofcourse there is racism out there. In the case of Marciano I do not believe it'd matter though. As far as not saying there were no greats except Johnson and then from Louis on is crazy. That's to say Babe Ruth was no big deal either. Somehow I can't agree that a fighter's legacy suffers due to how the sport was run. There are many blacks at Heavy right now and it's not working out so well for them is it? Blacks are not some super human killing machines. If you look at all the champions, most are not black. Whites could beat them then like now, we are all the same. Boxing is so messed up right now in several other, and perhaps worse, ways. Is that to say there are no greats anymore? So anyway, yeah, that's how I feel about that, have a nice day buddy.

P.S. I asked about Marciano's size related to these days also... I agree. I'd have him drop 10lbs. and fight Lt. Heavy' if I was his manager. Him being 185lbs had alot to do with fighting at Heavy, I think he could have dropped 10 and fought these days. HOW ABOUT THIS!!! ROCKY V.S. TARVER "Will v.s. Skill" LMAO!!!

Answer 3

Hello, Did any of you see Larry Holmes get beat twice by a light heavyweight in Micheal Spinks, or get a gift of a decision against Carl the Truth Williams? Who did Holmes fight that had the punching power of Marciano? Tyson. Lights out! Marciano was small, but had the punching power of George Foreman in either hand. He would have knocked Holmes out inside of 5 Rounds. Holmes came along at a time when there were no killers in the Heavyweight Division and ran his list of victories up against a bunch of nobodies. If anybody is overrated it is Holmes who until John Ruiz was the only Heavyweight champion to lose his title to a Light heavyweight. If you think I am crazy, pose this question to Bert Sugar, Expert in this field, He ranks Marciano behind ONLY Ali. That is hitting the nail on the head.

Answer 4

Smitty tells it like it is. I don't like politics in the boxing forum but I don't control the forum so keep on speaking freely Smitty. Yes Brad, Holmes is the most underrated and Marciano is slightly overrated. He may have not beaten these men in their prime but they were phenomenal fighters(the first four): Charles twice, Walcott twice, well I guess I can add an old Joe Louis to this list (I'm stretching on this one), Moore, La Starza twice, very solid heavy, Savold, Cockell. Rocco had a lot of heart, he achieved things many didn't think he could do and that counts for something.

Answer 5

Larry Holmes was underrated granted but by the same token Rocky would have been a great fighter in any era. Rocky could not help fight the fighters put in front of him but rest assured he would have done well in any era. Larry was definitely a great fighter he got better with age. I am a product of the eighties so I remember the man and his skills, but I would never brush over the skills of those that came before him..

For the record Jack Dempsey is another great white fighter and so is Jim Corbett.

Answer 6

You can't say a man is overrated when he went 49-0 as Marciano did. It's also tough to compare fighters from different eras as today's fighters are bigger. But I don't think Holmes is underrated. I think any follower of the sport recognizes the "Easton Assasin" as one of the great heavyweight champions in history. He had maybe the finest jab boxing has ever seen and underrated punching power. I do think he did himself a disservice late in his reign by fighting subpar competition (ie Scott Frank, Marvis Frazier, David Bey etc). I do think they were both great champs.

Answer 7

bingo u hit the nail right on the head, really surprised to see everyone agreeing with you as i also do, my opinion holmes number 3 overall behind ali and joe louis, marciano not in top 10 his biggest wins walcott,charles louis and moore would have all been losses if he had faced them when they were younger, if he were fighting today he would be a popular cruiserweight but prob not even a champion cruiserweight, when holmes crudley said rocky could`nt carry my jock strap he was correct but uncalled for.

Answer 8

Marciano is definitly overrated because even though he beat a lot of great names, he fought them all past their prime. He really didn't beat anybody in their prime and yet he's considered one of the greatest. I have Larry Holmes on the same level of Lennox Lewis, two fighters with great left jabs and overhand rights. Holmes and Lewis are great, but not top five of all time great. Top 20 great, yea.

Answer 9

i think marciano is overrated and holmes underrated,i do agree with you on both counts there.but im not sure marciano was the only white heavyweight of any consequence.what about jack dempsey and gene tunney?the reason marciano was so overated,in my opinion,is people read to much into 49-0. holmes would have beaten marciano by decision.

Answer 10

ZERO losses speaks for itself....Larry Holmes was beating the "name fighters" as they were on the decline.

Marciano had more heart than ANY fighter and refused to lose.

as for your black white comparison, Ali in his prime would have given Marciano a better fight than Holmes