A question about Catholic doctrine?

Question

I'm in the process of converting to Roman Catholicism, and a thought came to me. Roman Catholic doctrine states that the Pope is infallible in all matters of faith and morals. How do I justify this doctrine with statements made by previous Popes which promoted anti-Semitism and violence towards Jews?

Answer 1

You're half right in your definition. When the Pope defines a teaching regarding faith and/or morals, AND WHEN HE STATES IT IS TO BE HELD BY ALL THE FAITHFUL, then he is infallible. Both of those elements must be explicitly present when the Pope makes a statement for it to count as infallible. (By the way, many more infallible doctrines have come out of Ecumenical Councils than popes. Papal infallibility is just the kind that gets all the bad rap.)

We've had some crappy Popes. But the Faith has survived them - just as it survived a Pope who denied Jesus three times. Different popes have different viewpoints about different things - for example, John Paul II thought the Iraq war was unjust, and Pope Benedict XVI thinks rock music shouldn't be used at Mass - but, while their opinions as learned and holy men do hold weight, they aren't held to be definitive or infallible.

Answer 2

Can I tell you what your opinion is? No, of course not, you are the best person to ask about your opinion. Honestly given, it would be an infallible statement of your opinion. No body could say, no your opinion is something other than what you had stated. It sounds circular but its a place to start. There are many part to the Church. Who is authorized to speak with authority the teachings of the Church?, the Pope. The Pope speaks with such authority when unity is threatened. A bit like a referee's decision being final because if it wasn't, the whole game could be lost in debate.

Now the Protestant option is that everybody is free to interpret the Bible, morals and faith for themselves. That makes its acceptable for people to hold contradictory positions and both be considered correct. That is clearly absurd.

The best use of this teaching authority is for the pope and advisers to consider the best opinions on a question, then pray about it and consider past teachings right back to biblical sources, apply it all the the current situation and make what he considers the right teaching. There is much of the protestant method in this catholic process. Remember that very few infallible statements are made, I think the last was in the 50's, the immaculate conception. The Church would also point out that the wording is an attempt to convey the essence of the teaching. The real teaching is contained in the wording but never perfectly expressed.

If we went back to your infallible statement of your own opinion in a few weeks time, you might say; well, what I meant by that was...

So, as you consider your next step in conversion, you might ask what was that anti-semitic pope trying to say. Our utterances are shrouded in the cultural issues of our time. We also hear words through the culture of our moment.

Catholicism is not a religion you can understand just buy looking at the surface or in its present situation. I am reminded of Peter's Question, Lord where else shall we go?. Conversion is a journey towards wisdom not an intellectual treasure hunt for certainty.

Answer 3

Now your thinking. The pope is far from infallible. The roman catholic doctrine is a mess and like all other bad news religions, they have a leader they trust but cannot be trusted.

Have faith in the Bible,not the pope. True salvation is found in the Bible and the rc's teach a different gospel which is no gospel at all. The pope issue is just the tip of the iceberg, that religion is so polluted with false teaching that I amazed that anyone would even consider conversion to it.

"Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and the rest will be added to you" Mattew 6:33

I could go on and on about the serious problems that the roman catholic religion has. Trust in God,not religion. Study His Word, the Bible and get the TRUTH.

Answer 4

A couple of observations.

First, it is not Catholic doctrine that the pope is infallible, it is Catholic doctrine that the pope can act infallibly, only God is infallible. Second, you can act infallibly too and often do. Third, infallible is not inerrant. Finally, the Pope is not infallible in ALL matters of faith and morals.

So the first one. The pope, when acting as successor to St. Peter, in matters of faith and morals, in union with all the Catholic bishops, upon pronouncing a decision on matters believed in since the apostles, can promulgate an expression of that belief and it is infallible if it is also "received," by the laity. In other words, the Pope must be repeating a belief held throughout the entire Church throughout all time, he must be acting in union with the bishops so not only do the bishops agree but he is not a heretic at the time himself, further the laity agree with it.

Second, if you say "Jesus Christ is the Son of God," then you have acted infallibly. It is a belief always held by the orthodox Church, it is accepted by the laity, it is proclaimed by the bishops in union with the Pope and is supported by both scripture and tradition since the beginning. God alone in infallible, but he has left us knowledge of himself.

Inerrancy is similar in idea to the fundamentalist idea of the literal truth of the bible. Infallibility is not inerrancy. It sounds strange, but the idea goes like this: Only God is without error, humans make errors and popes and bishops are simply human. So it is quite possible to make an erroneous statement about a divine truth, but to correctly profess that truth but to have an expression of it which is imperfect. Human language is a poor tool to express divine truth. It is deeply imperfect. It is the truth behind the statement which is infallibly proclaimed, the proclamation itself may be poorly expressed.

Finally, the Pope is not infallible on all matters of faith and morals. He is infallible only in those received from the apostles. Should he pronounce infallibly that Jesus was a Martian, the response would likely be to get him some medicine for a psychiatric condition at the minimum. And, Pope's have only made two infallible pronouncements in 2000 years. The rest are confirmations of concilliar pronouncements. The number of infallible statements over 2000 years by anyone in the Church is very small. The Nicene Creed is probably the longest one and the most comprehensive one.

Papal statements are authoritative, but not necessarily binding. Statements by any bishop, Catholic, Orthodox or Copt is binding upon a Catholic until that Catholic evaluates that statement in light of the tradition and scriptures they have learned in a fully informed manner. The first bishop is Mathias (Acts 1:46). He succeeded Judas as an apostle. Each Catholic, Orthodox of Coptic bishop can show a chain of ordination going directly back to the apostles. Unlike a protestant minister or protestant bishop, who either appointed themselves or were appointed by another Protestant. Each bishop traces their call to service directly back to Jesus' call of the Twelve. Like the Twelve, they make mistakes too, sometimes terrible mistakes, but unlike Protestant ministers, they are bound to proclaim the same apostolic message that was received by the first bishops in 33 AD.

Finally, popes make mistake and are a product of their culture. Some popes have not been so bright, some have been terrible people. But I remind you that David, King of Israel, annointed of God, had his most loyal officer, Uriah, killed to get away with sleeping with his wife. Servants of the most high are still sinning men.

Answer 5

Eph. 3:10 - the wisdom of God is known, even to the intellectually superior angels, through the Church (not the Scriptures). This is an incredible verse, for it tells us that God's infinite wisdom comes to us through the Church. For that to happen, the Church must be protected from teaching error on faith and morals (or she wouldn't be endowed with the wisdom of God).
Remember also that there is a distinction between discipline and doctrine. The Church's doctrine cannot change because it comes from Christ through the apostles. Disciplines, of course, can and do change, and the popes have made these changes throughout history (days of obligation, hours of fasting, liturgical things, etc.)

When Jesus told Peter “whatever you bind or loose on earth is bound or loosed in heaven” (Matt. 16:18-19), He was promising to protect Peter from teaching error to the universal Church. Otherwise, Jesus could not make such a sweeping promise to Peter. Because God cannot lie (Titus 1:2; Heb. 6:18), Peter must be protected from teaching error, since what he binds or looses, heaven binds and looses as well. Indeed, God intrudes into the mind of the pope and prevents him from teaching error, just like the Father penetrated the mind of Peter when he confessed that Jesus was the Christ.

You recall what happened next. Jesus said Peter is the rock upon which He would build the Church and gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven. The basis for infallibility is the ability of the pope to accept and confess God's divine guidance without error. It has nothing to do with the pope's private opinions or conduct. The fact that all the popes have spoken with one voice over the past 2,000 years when it comes to dogmatizing principles of Catholic faith and morals proves that Jesus has kept His promise.

Note also that nothing the Church teaches on faith or morals just “pops up.” This is because the Church’s teaching comes from the Tradition of the apostles, which we call the sacred deposit of faith. The Church may try to clarifying the way she expresses doctrine, but there can be nothing new under the sun, as they say. Often, the Church will issue a dogmatic teaching to clarify a point of contention or refute a heresy. But clarifying the way in which she expresses the divine deposit of faith does not mean she makes up new doctrines. The doctrines remain the same.
The Angels in heaven are rejoicing of your return. They actually are.

Answer 6

The Pope is not considered infallible at all times. The Pope is considered infallible when he is teaching matters of faith and morals that are directly linked to the Bible. There are some good books about what Catholics really believe if you are converting. Including "The Catholic Sourcebook," "What Catholics Really Believe," and "Catholicism for Dummies."

Hope this helps. :)

Answer 7

When a man becomes Pope, not everything he declares from that point on is considered infallible. Only when the Pope speaks "ex cathedra" is his proclamations infallible.

It is possible for a Pope to err on bad judgement and make mistakes. All people, including Popes, are subject to the Law, not above it.

Only when the Pope speaks "ex cathedra" is he infallible. Actually, it would be more accurate to say it's the Pope's proclamations that are infallible when he speaks "ex cathedra".

Answer 8

I am an Anglo-Catholic which is rooted in the Anglican Church (Church of England, Episcopal Church USA, Scottish Episcopal Church) and don't hold the Pope in that high of prestige, but wanted to help you get your mind around this doctrine. As much as the Pope is the head of the Church, he is still human and in need of salvation thru Christ, and thus a sinner and makes mistakes and says stupid things. He can say what ever he wants and doesn;t make it the RC church teaching on what ever he says.....now if he made a motion to make it a church teaching that Jews are whatever, etc. then as a Roman Catholic, you would have to somehow uphold it. Remember that slavery and killing women were also taught by the Church. It is important that when you become a member of the RCC you are part of its body, become active in the lay ministry and active in the wider church and speak out against such things. So basically unless it becomes official, the Pope can say what he wants, he is human. You need to be a voice in your parish and stand up and say, "What is he talking about" and encourage discourse. Think of him like the president of the usa, he may be a dick and say stupid things but it doesn't mean its law, unless he makes it a law,and you can stand up and take action against it. Remember Jesus was a renegade standing up to the religious authorities of his time and questioning them, that's what got him in a lot of hot water, but think about how his actions against authority became everyones liberation, its pretty cool. Good luck.

Answer 9

They crossed over the line that made it a matter of faith and morals. How to interact with other people is not necessarily such an issue, so it was merely their opinion.

Answer 10

I saw in the news recently that the current pope prayed towards Mecca in a mosque in Turkey. Doesn't sound very infallible to me.