Isaiah 53: To me from Isaiah 53 refers to Israel, can you counter this argument?

Question

It seems to me that if you read Isaiah 52 and 54, that it is clear that the suffering servant refers to Israel. I know many Christians claim this refers to Jesus. Completely out of context, it might seem so, but In context I think not.

I don't mean to sound angry, but many missionaries try to use this line to convert Jews and I think it is very clear that it does not refer to Jesus.

I am asking this question because I have seen it on yahoo answers many times from the Christian perspective with Jews on the defense and I wanted to try it the other way around

Julian: so we could argue about it on yahoo answers..

Royal, those versus are thousands of pages apart.

I dont see how you can possibly apply them to each other. Just because they both contain the word bruise? The first verse literally refers to the snake in the garden of eden. It is the Christians who believe that the snake metaphorically represents Satan, but if you read genesis chapter one there is absolutely no mention of Satan at all. your argument only works when you suppose your conclusions first.

Here is a good example, imagine I described to you a TV in which an attractive woman married a dopey husband who was a complete imbecile. Drank beer and watched TV, one of the kids was smart and the other was a trouble maker.

Depending on the decade you could ask 10 people what show this referred to and get ten answers. In fact I predict that 10 years from now a show exactly like this will be on television.

let me be specific the suffering servant is the nation of Israel, don't put words in my mouth please.

I wanted to hear some legitimate theological points, I am dissappointed

Answer 1

Gen.3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Isa.53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Thats just one...but don't worry about it..some are called, some are not.

LIKE I SAID>>> DONT WORRY..you weren't called..so dont lose sleep over it.

Answer 2

to Christians: if Isaiah 53 is referring to Jesus then why dose verse 53:10 talk about the suffering servant seeing offspring and living a long life?


the word Zereh in the Bible is used dozens of times in the Bible and each time refers to physical seed. Did Jesus have kids?

also I dont think anyone will argue he lived very long...

Answer 3

Oh Lord, why did you make the bible so complicated?

Maybe it's a test? But why? To prove, or rather, show the differences and complexities of human culture? But why? Why make it so difficult? Why not give the word of God, without the Son present? Sure, a living breathing prophet is proof that your work can be materialized in the world, but then why multiple prophets? Well, I shouldn't ask that, it makes perfect sense to have multiple prophets, because if only one person could figure out your wisdom, it would be unproveable, a sham, but since multiple people can figure out your wisdom, it means it works, it really really works, throughout all of time and the ages, throughout different cultures and languages. Sanskrit, Greek, Latin, Old english to middle and modern english, even superdated-technological language. Mother board, Internet, all that crap, that is all ways of describing you, my Lord, The infinite Lord of all, not just me, but because it is not just me, there are others that don't see it as clearly. Christians too, Lord, Bless them, they mean well, but seriously what are they thinking, I'm sorry Lord, I had to re-type that last entry because I didn't want to swear in your presence. Forgiveness truly is an unbeatable virtue. If Love is the fabric of the cosmos, then forgiveness must be created when a being leaves that endless web of love. Wow, God, you are truly amazing. Bless all that you do for us, and I'll try and keep those uh, thoughts about the bible to myself. After all, everybody needs to work at their own pace.

Answer 4

Written about/ to Israel - you bet
Foretelling prophecy of the Messiah, Jesus Christ-absolutely

let him who has eyes to see, see what God has given

so go to the Wedding Feast in the New Testament, the honored
guests were invited - and when they did not show up, the master compelled those to come from the highways and byways

come on in to the feast - YOU are the honored guest at the table

Answer 5

This issue arises out of Christians reading this one verse out of Isaiah, instead of reading all of Isaiah.

It's further compounded by the way Christians approach reading the Bible (with preconceived notions about Jesus). They basically go through the Jewish scriptures trying to find verses that sound like they could be describing Jesus.

Actually, this portion of Isaiah is talking about a time in the future, after the Messiah has come, when the gentile kings of nations will be astonished to see that the Jews have been right all along, and the nations will be ashamed by their persecution of the Jews throughout the ages.

The nation of Israel, God's son, is this suffering servant of God.

How do we know that Israel is the "servant" Isaiah is talking about? The "suffering servant" is clearly identified in Isaiah as being the nation of Israel:

Isaiah 41:8-9
But thou, ISRAEL, ART MY SERVANT, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham My friend. Whom I grasped from the ends of the earth, and from it nobles I called you, and I said to you, "YOU ARE MY SERVANT"; I chose you and I did not despise you.

Isaiah 44:1-2
Yet hear now, O JACOB MY SERVANT AND ISRAEL, whom I have chosen. So said the Lord your Maker, and He who formed you from the womb shall aid you. Fear not, MY SERVANT JACOB, and Jeshurun whom I have chosen.

Isaiah 44:21
Remember these, O Jacob and Israel, for THOU ART MY SERVANT; I have formed thee; thou art MY SERVANT, O ISRAEL, thou shalt not be forgotten of Me.

Isaiah 45:4
For the sake of MY SERVANT JACOB, and Israel My chosen one, and I called to you by your name . . . .

Isaiah 48:20
Leave Babylon, flee from the Chaldeans; with a voice of singing declare, tell this, publicize it to the end of the earth; say, "THE LORD HAS REDEEMED HIS SERVANT JACOB."

Isaiah 49:3
And said to me, THOU ART MY SERVANT, O ISRAEL in whom I will be glorified!

Answer 6

yet another lie. they're absolutely no longer forbidden from reading it. surely, they examine it in CONTEXT. that's something that you obviously have not. that is a few questions for you. What sickness did Jesus have? who're his little ones? How is demise at 33 having prolonged days? Isaiah fifty 3:10 yet it delighted the LORD to overwhelm him through sickness; to be certain if his soul ought to grant itself in restitution, that he ought to be certain his seed, lengthen his days, and that the purpose of the LORD ought to prosper through his hand

Answer 7

Isaiah 53 says all about Jesus,,if you can read the new testament it shows all what it says..As He walked and the things said,,He is your Messiah...
1 Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

3 He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.

8 By oppression [a] and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken. [b]

9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes [c] his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

11 After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light of life [d] and be satisfied [e] ;
by his knowledge [f] my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, [g]
and he will divide the spoils with the strong, [h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

Answer 8

You are correct. Christians do look at passages like that one, and declare that it proves that Jesus was the Messiah.

It doesn't "prove" anything. The assertion that "Jesus is the Messiah" or "Jesus is Lord" etc is an article of FAITH. By definition, something that is an article of faith cannot be proven by facts -- otherwise it would be an article of fact.

If everything was proven in religion, would we even need faith? The answer, of course, is "no."

Answer 9

G-d himself knows it refers to israel. what the christians want to believe doesn't really matter :)

Answer 10

Nothing in the Tanakh refers to Jesus. They have taken the Holy Scriptures and ''made them say what they want them to say''-even if they are wrong.