Im looking to buy a rifle?

Question

Ok, im looking to buy a rifle. im looking at the remington 700 series. im stuck on what caliber to get. whats the difference between a 300 win mag and the 308. i know the size of the round is different but which would you guys or ladies recommend. im looking to use it for long range target and some hunting..

Answer 1

Bound's hubby here:

"Boker" has given you some very good information.

Actually, the .300 Winchester Magnum is a premier 1000 yard cartridge, if it is fired in an appropriate rifle. Buying just any Model 700 (whether in .308 or .300) does not make it a good target rifle.

The Remington 700 VLS (Varmint rifle in .308) or Remington 700 Sendero (Varmint rifle in .300 Win Mag) will make good chases for long-range target rifles, with additions .... and make excellent hunting rifles with appropriate scopes, if you are willing to heft a few extra pounds when afield. (I have an older Remington 700 Varmint Special in .308 Winchester with Redfield Palma sights and a Weaver K15 Scope modified with a target recticle for long-range competition.)

The primary ballistic differences between the .308 Winchester and the .300 Win Mag are:
1) The .308 has less recoil
2) The .308 is less expensive to shoot
3) The .300 provides a greater range of heavier bullets for hunting and/or long range (wind) conditions.
4) The .300 has a greater velocity, and such, greater terminal velocity and energy (at target)

Long Range target shooting has basically two courses of fire, the Palma Match (15 shots at each distance: 800 yards, 900 yards, and 1000 yards) which is shot with iron (target) sights only, and 1000 yard Matches (20 shots) fired with either iron sights or any sights, depending on the match conditions. The .300 Win Mag would be best suited only to the 1000 yard matches ... Palma rules limit "Palma" rifles to .308 Winchester.

Rifle Modifications:
Regardless of the caliber rifle you purchase, you need to have a heavy/bull barrel on the rifle, and make some additions and modifcations to your rifle:
1) An adjustable match quality trigger.
2) A high comb "marksman-style" stock.
3) An accessory rail with hand-stop.
4) Target quality (micrometer) sights and bases, front and rear.
5) A long range scope base with rings (Champion's Choice carries a long-range scope base with integral redfield rear sight base for about $120).
6) A high quality target scope of about 10-12x.

If you are planning to shoot long-range seriously (you better, since the above mods could cost you an extra $1500 to $2000 above the cost of your rifle), you need to purchase some additional shooting equipment (stool, spotting scope and stand, shooting mat) and give extremely strong consideration to becoming a competent hand-loader!

EDITED TO ADD:
About the .30-06 ... it is a FANTASTIC cartridge; however, it does have a small short-coming when used on the target line (one of the reasons it is fading from the long line). That short-coming is that the powder does not fill the case completely when properly loaded, allowing a large "air-cavity" within the loaded round.

This "air-cavity" affects the orientation of the gunpowder when the cartridge is loaded into your firearm. With the .30-06, this orientation can differ with each shot. The "orientation of gunpowder" is actually very critical (especially when shooting long-range) because it affects the ignition rate of the powder, which tends to lead to inconsistent burn-rates and inconsistent velocities, which WILL impact the external ballistics of the bullet critically!

A Military M72 target round (173gr FMJBT @ 2650 fps) is a good ballistic model to follow. The new load would be with Sierra's 175gr MatchKing ... aim for a velocity of 2650 fps with a standard deviation of no more than +/= 20 fps. Sad thing is, this deviation with most powders will be extremely difficult to achieve, solely because of the powder's orientation. When Military .308 M852 (Sierra 168 gr HPBT) or M118LR (Sierra 175 gr HPBT) is used, powder orientation is not an issue because there is not an "air-cavity" and the powder actually butts against the base of the bullet, which is the most preferable condition.

Good luck!

Answer 2

The difference between the .300 win mag and the .308 winchester is not the caliber in fact they are the same but the length of the cartridge and the powder is different thus changing the velocity. The .300 win mag has more veloctity and thus the bullet trajectory is flatter and that is what changes the long range performance.

The .308, .30/06 and .300 winmag are the same caliber and have the same ranges for hunting and both knockdown animals well. If you are doing alot of target shooting I would recommend the .30/06 it has more room for powder for you to hand load better loads and get downrange performance, although the .308 is full of powder it is still accurate and the military shoots it out to 1000 yards. In fact the .308 was designed to duplicate the 06 but with newer powders and to make the actions smaller, but falls short with the heavier bullets it can't match the 06. The general rule is in bullets 150 to 165 grains the .308 excels and is the same as the 06 but at heavier bullets the cartridge doesn't have enough room for slower burning powder to propel the bullet as fast as the 06. But, it is a compact package and does it well even in the higher grains. The .30/06 is more versatile and will shoot the heavier grain bullets better due the slower burning powder you can put in it. Also, the.30/06 has more ammuntion around for ti and shoots several different bullet weights from varmits rounds to the 200 something grain bullets that give African animals a run for their money. Also the .30/06 falls only a few hundred fps below the factory .300 win mag velocity with the good handloads. For hunting the .30/06 can't be beat it has versatility and ammo is plentiful. The .300 winchester magnum has higher pressure levels and can fire a .30 cal bullet fast. This results in flatter trajectory. It is easier to shoot longer ranges with this gun and it gives it "theoretically" more knockdown power. Although shot placement is more important. The .30/06 and .308 do all of North American hunting well, I have shot elk at 400 yards and 80 yards. Moose can be taken with a .270 and have been done so by Jack O'Connor. Who was also from Arizona. He even used the .30/06 in Africa. But, if you were truly target/competition orientated and wanted a gun that would eliminate variables which one is of drop and can handle the recoil for all the practice and pay for all the rounds, then the .300 win mag is for you. Carlos Hathcock used the .300 win mag for his victories in target shooting.
Generally for the average person the .30/06 is the limit at which recoil and comfortable shooting are met and anything over will be uncomfortable. I can and have shot a .30/06 all day and was fine, I don't think I would want to try that with my .300 win mag.

The rifle you are suggesting is one of the best, the winchester 70 is also good. I have a Remington 700 in .30/06. Carlos Hathcock a legendary marine sniper in Vietnam, he used a Winchester 70 in .30/06 and later on Remingtons. The 700 is what the Marine and Army sniper rifles are based on nowadays, they heavily modify them though. Carlos shot his competitions and won medals with the .300 win mag.
For what you ask in the question the .308 will be a shorter round and give you a shorter and somewhat lighter gun, not by much but it helps. Especially in the field although I don't mind my .30/06 some people prefer a shorter action. It will also give you good accuracy and be the best gun for hunting in rifle and its in one of the three solid .30 calibers. You might want to accesorize your 700 in .308 to shoot better for competition.

All in all your rifle is a great choice and either caliber will suit your needs as most all north american big game can and have been taken with the .30/06 and many African animals as well. If you handload definately all will be a good choice. But coming from a purely store bought ammo and target competiton, I would say the .308 as the police and military using this round have caused makers to offer very good cartridges and bullets that are marketed towards competition shooting. Black Hills is a company that comes to mind. The .300 mag has been used in competition and I am sure there are cartridges out for it, but not as much as the .308. If it were my choice it would be the .30/06 with my handloads and I can give a .300 win mag or a .308 a run for its money for its the shooter that matters most. I like the flexibility of the 06 without the recoil and price. The .300mag makes the job a little easier, but kicks more and is more expensive and ammo is more expensive. If you practice like you should and know your handloads/cartridges from the store, your rifle, and the drop of the bullets from your gun you will do fine with either three.
If you haven't shot heavy kicking rifles, haven't shot rifles in general, or for the average person the .308. There are too many people who don't practice because of the recoil of their rifle, and many a develop a flinch in reaction to the recoil. They don't realize there are two calibers below it that offer the same range, the same knockdown power, and a poorer trajectory but it is not that bad. People before the .300 winchester magnum were getting along with the 06 and the even worse trajectory .30-40
krag. It mostly depends on practice and skill of the shooter. Go with the .308 or .30/06 and you will definitely be happy. Be confident you have a powerful caliber and an accurate one and you can beat the average joe with his hard kicking magnum. All it does is hit the paper a bit harder and if its an animal it doesn't care what the velocity is of the bullet that hit it. All it does is go a bit flatter to the target. There is no magic bullet and all will kill fine, all will shoot paper fine, and two won't break the bank and break your shoulder especially in target shooting. It is mostly preference and if you have a .300 win magnum and practice and have it for the benefits then that is fine too. Good luck! (I have one too for the benefits of 1000 yds shooting in competitions but have used the .308 exceptionally well)

Hopefully that helps you sort things out a bit, its hard to give you a definite answer, now if you said .223 vs .50 that would have been a bit easier. But .308 vs .300 mag, its a shorter gun, less recoil vs flatter trajectory but harder kick. That is what it boils down to.

Edited To Add:
Sorry Bound posted while I was writing, I was hoping he would show up. He summed it up great!

It is true the .300 win mag will shoot better with winds or be better for you to figure out the trajectory and is great for 1000yds.

The .30/06 does have the airpocket issue and is technically not as accurate as the .308. And the .30/06 has been disappearing from the line, I still remember when there were a fair number of them on the line, one of them being me. I threw the .30/06 in there for a versatile hunting round and for informal target shooting plus minor competition. So if you are doing target shooting for competition reasons the .308 would be good with the .300 win mag the best especially 1000yds.

Answer 3

The 700 is a good choice.

Between the .308 and .300WM it's the .308 hands down.

I'm not a big fan of recommending the .300WM for 90% of people out there. It kicks HARD. Ammo is expensive. Handloading is still expensive. It's too much for most game in the Lower 48.

I regularly shoot big bores from the bench including recently a .416 Rigby and a number of military rounds. These bad boys kick like the .300WM. They rattle your teeth and can bruise the shoulder. Learning to overcome your mind's natural 'flintch' takes a lot of practice and most guys just don't ever get there.

The .300 WM is a great round, don't get me wrong. It's just that most guys get it because they think they are macho, not because they are going after Kodiaks or Moose on the tundra where they need to make 600 yard kills.

I concur with the earlier posters....GET A 30-.06! Sure, it's your grandfathers favorite round, but it's never been improved on for all around hunting as well as better-than-you-are potential on the range. Ammo is everywhere high-grade super accurate hunting components or loaded ammo and cheap military surplus make more shots at the range possible for just plain shooting stuff. Much like the .308, in that respect, but more energy.

If you want a "boom cannon" to shake up your buddies with, get a Mosin Nagant carbine and a case of cheap 7.62x54r ammo....(or a 8mm Mauser) for about $150 . This is about what you will save from not buying .300WM!

Answer 4

if you'll primarily be target shooting and only doing "some" hunting, i'd go with the .308.

the 300 win mag kicks like a mule, and ammo will cost you a heck of a lot more than .308. unless you're a handloader, you'll be spending quite a bit on rounds. also, i'm not sure what kind of target shooting you'll be doing, but if it's more long range plinking than long range target, you can find a good deal on .308 surplus at gun shows or some gun shops.

in any case, the .308 is still a perfectly good hunting round, unless your hunting involves particularly large game, like elk or moose. even then, a well-placed .308 would do the trick.

btw, have you considered a 30-06? performance, recoil, and cost-wise, it sits more or less in between the .308 and .300 win mag. (as well as the ability to buy it in military surplus for long range plinking)

Answer 5

I also like the 700 series, the 700 CDL. I would go with a 30-06 instead of the .308 or 300 win mag. For long range and hunting I would go with the 30-06.

Answer 6

If you are going to hunt for deer or elk you will be fine with the .308 my dad shoots a 30-06 model 700 and has taken down a 800 pound cow elk. If you want a stronger punch go with the 300 win mag.

Answer 7

The difference between the two is the magnum designation. The 300 mag is rated at 54,000 cup of pressure and the 308 is 52,000cup. This meaning the magnum is louder and possibly kicks just a bit harder. If you are doing benchrest target, you may want the 300 win mag. If you want a rifle to shoot from different positions, the .308 may be better.

Answer 8

If you are target shooting at the 1,000 yard range get the 300 Win Mag,other wise the .308 will do fine.

Answer 9

Recoil. The Win Mag is like a punch in the shoulder. You don't target practice with the Mag. You can hunt with it. One shot, one kill. If you want to target shoot and hunt, I would go with the 308.

Answer 10

It depends on what you are wanting to hunt. .308 is plenty to take white-tails or muleys, but for elk, moose, bear, i would go with the .300 win mag. For target shooting the .308 will be easier on your shoulder. So it comes down to what you want to hunt for.