Please help! Would these places be consider a puppy mill or backyard breeder?

Question

http://poodleville.com/ and http://www.trenastoys.com/ ..I want to buy a dog but I'm not sure. Please serious answers only!! I don't want to make a mistake!

Thank you so much ladies for your advice and your opinion. I'll stay clear of both. Thank you!

I will give the shelters a try first. I know they're a lot of animals that need a home. Thanks everyone for your opinions

Answer 1

The first one is an absolute yes. WIthout even going any further than the first box, I see the word "teacup". There is no such thing as a "teacup" anything and no responsible breeder would use that word. Hence, I would vote BYB on this one.

The second one is a little better, but not much. In describing her dogs, she uses 'meets breed standard' and 'healthy', but she never specifies who has judged them to "meet the breed standard" nor does she mention if they have been cleared by OFA and CERF.

She also doesn't mention that she shows dogs. Most reputable breeders show their dogs. They have puppies to try and create the perfect show dog. This seems more to be breeding for money.

And the prices? EEEKKK!! A pet quality dog should not cost anywhere near that much!!!

Another BYB sign is that her pups are not already sold. A responsible breeder does not breed until she has ALL or most potential pups pre-sold.

I'm just thrilled that you are being so careful about this. I'm going to offer you a few sites to help you realize BYBs without our help. I personally don't mind helping, but it will probably save you time to be able to recognize the signs yourself.

I also want to let you know that anyone who takes credit cards over the internet is pretty much going to be a BYB. I know that the times are changing, but most good breeders want to personally meet who they are selling to. So random internet puppy sites with prices listed and payment options aren't usually going to be a good breeder. Sorry!

Now, for the links:

http://dogplay.com/GettingDog/index.html (lots of GREAT links on here)

http://www.poodleclubofamerica.org/ethicalguidelines.htm Poodle club of America's code of ethics. If a breeder doesn't meet each and every one of these, move on.

http://www.wonderpuppy.net/breeding.htm#puppymills - more great links to read

http://www.pbrc.net/breeding3.html - one of the best comparison charts I've seen.

Good luck in your search! : )


Edit: Don't bother with the newspaper ads mentioned by sunshine. 99.9% of the time the person is a BYB. Again, a responsible breeder has the puppies sold *before* she breeds the dogs.

Answer 2

Who called you a back yard breeder? It sounds like you were responsible, I mean you got her genetic testing and all that and didn't breed her as early as her 1st heat. Responsible breeders hardly ever make a profit, they are lucky sometimes to break even and when they do make a profit its not a large amount. Although show/working breeders will not sell puppies in non show/working homes that can be bred- they are spayed and neutered. Did you say you done any health testing,etc? If you didn't list that, that might have made some people say you were a BYB. In your contract did you have any spay/neuter in there? In seven years a male, female and their offspring can produce over 4,000 puppies, which just continues the cycle. Which means chances are those puppies, can end up in the statistic of approximately 4-6 million euthanized each year. Explaining what a back yard breeder is, is different to everyone. Basically they are people that don't do any genetic testing, bred dogs to early( before age 2), bred for profit(not always the case though) Oh and they breed designer mutts. Some might disagree with me. I do think that only show and working breeders should breed though.

Answer 3

Can tell you a petshop is the WORST place to buy a dog, second worst is the internet. A reputable pet shop won't sell dogs or cats. We average 50-100 calls a day for purebred mostly small dogs and our shop is located in a semi-rural area. Bradley has given wonderful advice, as have others. I don't even recommend breeders in my area. It is sad but I only know a handful of people who really care what happens to the dog in the end. People who show their dogs for breed characteristics or for obedience are the best to consider if you must purchase a dog. We send customers to petfinder.com and petfinder.org. You enter in your zip code and a list of shelters are shown for the area. Shelter workers are getting much wiser. In our area, people must meet a minimum age requirement at the least. If you are in love with a particular breed, the breed rescue groups are the way to go but a word of warning, you'll be checked out before getting one of their dogs too, just like applying for a credit card, they ask for references and a local vet and they do check up on you too. The ASPCA is really taking a more active stance against pet shops that sell dogs, in part because while in pet shops, the care received in less than minimal and the animals get very stressed. I am from Missouri and recently while visiting Colorado, saw a Mall Pet Shop. I was horrified. The pups were too big for the cages, had no food, water or toys and the cages were overcrowded. As another stated, when you purchase a dog from conditions like this, you are enabling a person to continue to treat animals bad. A breeder who won't show you where the dogs live or the parents, has a group of puppies set aside, or tries to meet you somewhere is not good to deal with. Now people are being ripped off via the net. Customers want small dogs so badly that they don't take the time to check out facilities, end up with a dog that is not social and impossible to housebreak and do not know until years later how much they may have to pay for genetic defects the breeder is aware of but breed the dog every chance just for the money. If you want to know which kind of pets end up in shelters the most, look at the websites listed above when searching for a breed. Min Pins and Jack Russell Terriers end up there a lot. Thanks for reading.

Answer 4

Hi, It looks like both are puppy mills. A backyard breeder would not have to use a website to sell their puppies. Try looking in the newspapers want ads where you can go and visit the home where the puppies are. That way you can see if it truly is a backyard breeder or a big operation puppy mill. You will also get to see the mother of the puppies and see if they are in a clean, healthy environment. Good Luck!

Answer 5

Looking for a Dog?

First go to your local shelter. There are 10 to 20 million dogs and cats killed in this country every single year. These are great animals. They deserve to have great homes. We should all strive to be great enough to deserve them. According to many studies, 25 - 30% of the dogs in shelters are purebreeds.

Next, go to a breed rescue group. Almost every breed of dog has a rescue group. You can find them on the Internet. Do a websearch for any breed and contact any of the representatives. They can give you the names of the representatives in your area.

Next, go to Internet shelters. Many shelters are doing long distance adoptions. You can find them with a websearch.

Finally, if you do not find the dog you want by taking these steps, then look for quality breeders. Go to dog shows and talk to the breeders of the breed you are interested in. Ask them for the names of the breeders that they would recommend. And ask them what genetic testing and medical certifications should be done for that breed. When you go to a breeder to buy a puppy ask these questions:



1. How many breeds of dogs do they breed. One is good, two is probably acceptable, no more.

2. How many dogs do they have. Ask how many litters they have every year. Ask how many puppies they sell and whether they sell any to petstores. Ask whether the breeder has a state or federal license.

3. Ask if you can see the dogs - all the dogs - not just the puppies. Many puppymills have an area where they will bring the puppies to show to the public. You have to see where all the dogs live. We think all dogs should live in the house.

4. Ask what kind of genetic testing they have done on the dogs. Ask what health certificates they have for the dogs.

5. Ask for the name of their veterinarian and call them to find out how often they see the parents and confirm whether genetic testing has been done.

6. Ask for the names of five people who have bought puppies from them and then call the references.

7. Ask if the puppies are sold on a contract and then ask to see the contract. Ask if there is a warranty.

8. Ask whether the breeder will take back a dog regardless of the age if you are unable to take care of it.

9. Ask to see the pedigree and ask how many champions there are in the lineage.

10. Listen to whether the breeder asks you any questions. If the breeder doesn't care about the home that the puppy would be going to, then you don't want to buy from them.

DO NOT, under any circumstances, buy a dog in a petstore. Our research establishes that 98% of the dogs in petstores come from what we consider to be puppymllls. You are not saving that puppy, you are sentencing it's parents to lives of misery.

Answer 6

I think everyone's canned answer is to check the shelter, BUT, there aren't a lot of small dogs at the shelter...if you have your heart set on a poodle, I'd go and look at them if they are nearby, but I wouldn't expect to be purchasing show quality dogs, They both sound like they are just breeders trying to make a living selling dogs. MOST "breeders" are just that. Some occasionally show a dog, but they breed for cash, so don't believe that nonsense that they are doing it for some other reason. they will sell you a non-show puppy for about 1000.00 more than you would pay one of these other breeders. So why buy from a showing breeder, when you can buy a non-show pet of the same quality from someone who just breeds? I would be careful if the pups are not raised among people, ie if they are in a kennel. they need proper socializing. I have a poodle and have had them all my life, they are smart dogs and they do not share the same neurotic behavior that yorkies do(i have one of those too) and they are a nice size...the only major drawback to them is that it's a lifetime of grooming and I do tire of that. poodles also are prone to cataracts. toys are always bred for small size, but beware....a tiny dog is a sickly dog and they usually don't live as long or enjoy a healthy life....I would look for one at least 5 lbs and up. the problems with hypoglycemia that the one breeder talks about are real and they can die from not having enough food in their system....so if you're not home all day, I wouldn't leave a pup that wasn't eating well. good luck in your search.....

In response

Answer 7

You will not be able to answer the question visiting their web site. Are they local? If not, I'd stay away. Local breeders who have been around awhile have a reputation you can check out easily.

I'm not trying to be mean. Ask yourself, are you really looking for a "companion" or a trophy?. Asking may make a difference in your choice. Would you be willing to give extra care if the animal did develop health problems? The more refined the blood line, the more likely this will happen. A trophy Collie has too narrow a head to be healthy. A friend had 4 consecutive German shepherds who developed seizures at a young age. Boston Terriers need LOTS of exercise. Yorkies tend to stink as they get older.

I have had a few purebreds & lots of mutts. A few were rescued. Didn't matter as most were good pooches. I never paid a dime for any of them & only regretted having one of them. She had the bad habit of completely chewing the leg off the dining room table, in spite of being a lovable, beautiful Irish Setter. She made a great outside dog for her next family, though.

That is the key. Does the dog fit well with the family & their expectations of her? or him? Choosing certain breeds for those characteristics makes sense. But so does getting to know them before buying.

Answer 8

I agree with the other posters. If the pups are not already sold, I'd be leary. Reputable breeders usually have waiting lists for their puppies.

I highly suggest steering clear of places like this, as well as newspaper ads.

Check out http://www.petfinder.com and do a search for the breeds you are interested in to see what is available in your area.

Rescue and adopting are great ways to get a dog. It also saves another one by opening up a place for them to go to...

Good luck, and thanks for trying to find out if these places are reputable before dumping your money there!

http://www.libertydogtraining.com

Answer 9

any breeder that does not breed show-quality dogs is a BYB. you should find a good show breeder and ask about any available littlers. they will usually have 1-2 litters a year maximum. and the father will not be on the premises. these are all good signs of a true breeder. not all the puppies will be show quality, in fact there is usually 1 or none, and the rest must go to good homes as companion dogs.

Answer 10

have you considered going to your local animal shelter? they often have puppies and purebreds if that's what you're looking for. puppies and dogs from shelters are often attention starved or abused and are therefore usually very lovable. try going to at least check if they have any dogs you'd be interested in, if you find one ask to spend some time with it to see if you click. it's better to save a life (dogs at shelters that are not adopted get put to sleep) than to find a good breeder and buy a puppy that's not even made.