More about the Trinity theory?

Question

How could it be? Me and my family have had this debate for as long as I can remember. I just dont see a Trinity here:

John 14:28 If you loved me you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

If The father and the son were the same why would he have to go to himself, and how could part of himself be greater than another part of himself?

John 14:31
The world must learn that I love the father and that I do exactly what my Father commanded me

Um... he did what he comanded of himself? Why not just say that. If you are God in the flesh then why adress yourself always as your own father?

and constant contradiction --- in the same paragraph
John 14:10
"Dont you believe I am in the Father and the Father is in me?
John 14:13
"And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the son may bring Glory to the Father."
Why would he have to deliver Glory to himself?

I'm ready to give up.

Royal Racer: I'm glad you arent my teacher. Why dont you try teaching instead of slamming me?

chapelit- thanku for the references. Appreciate it.

Hey-Ambassador Z- could u please give me some references, I would love to read up on what u are saying. Thanks!

Answer 1

There is no such thing as the Trinity, This is largest lie that Satan uses to keep people from knowing who the True God is, if he can do this, he's got you.

“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:36) How do these words confirm that Jesus is not Almighty God?

Jesus says that the Father knows more than the Son does. If Jesus were part of Almighty God, however, he would know the same facts as his Father. So, then, the Son and the Father cannot be equal. Yet, some will say: ‘Jesus had two natures. Here he speaks as a man.’ But even if that were so, what about the holy spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why does Jesus not say that it knows what the Father knows?

1st of all Jesus said: He pointed to God as the Source of his life, saying, “I live because of the Father.” According to the context, this meant that his life resulted from or was caused by his Father, even as the gaining of life by dying men would result from their faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice. Joh 6:56, 57.

Jesus’ being called the “only-begotten Son” (Joh 1:14; 3:16, 18) does not mean that the other spirit creatures produced were not God’s sons, for they are called sons as well. (Ge 6:2, 4; Job 1:6) However, by virtue of his being the sole direct creation of his Father, the firstborn Son was unique, different from all others of God’s sons, all of whom were created or begotten by Jehovah through that firstborn Son. So “the Word” was Jehovah’s “only-begotten Son” in a particular sense,

Jesus is also “Mighty God” and “Eternal Father.” This does not mean that he usurps the authority and position of Jehovah, who is “God our Father.” (2 Corinthians 1:2) “He [Jesus] . . . gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.” (Philippians 2:6) He is called Mighty God, not Almighty God. Jesus never thought of himself as God Almighty, for he spoke of his Father as “the only true God,” that is, the only God who should be worshiped. (John 17:3;


Rev. 1:1; 3:14, RS: “The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him, why did God have to give the revelation to Jesus, if he is God? .

Does the Bible teach that none of those who are said to be included in the Trinity is greater or less than another, that all are equal, that all are almighty? Mark 13:32, RS: “Of that day or that hour no ones knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Of course, that would not be the case if Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were coequal, comprising one Godhead. And if, as some suggest, the Son was limited by his human nature from knowing, the question remains, Why did the Holy Spirit not know?)

John 14:28, RS: “[Jesus said:] If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.”

1 Cor. 11:3, RS: “I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.” (Clearly, then, Christ is not God, and God is of superior rank to Christ. It should be noted that this was written about 55 C.E., some 22 years after Jesus returned to heaven.

A person who is really seeking to know the truth about God is not going to search the Bible hoping to find a text that he can construe as fitting what he already believes. He wants to know what God’s Word itself says. He may find some texts that he feels can be read in more than one way, but when these are compared with other Biblical statements on the same subject their meaning will become clear. It should be noted at the outset that most of the texts used as “proof” of the Trinity actually mention only two persons, not three; so even if the Trinitarian explanation of the texts were correct, these would not prove that the Bible teaches the Trinity.

Answer 2

You have stated a valid question and excellent observations on those scriptures, because...

The Trinity is not Biblical.

Even seminary students have difficulty explaining the trinity.

Early transcribers who believed in the trinity concept added certain things to the Bible to support their beliefs.

For example, the book of "1 John," chapter 5, verses 7 & 8 (the New King James Version) reads: "For there are three who bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word (or Christ), and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one... And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one."

The "Critical and Experimental Commentary" says of these verses that they were NOT found in the Latin Vulgate until the 8th century.

"Adam Clarke's Commentary" states: "But...this verse is not genuine. It is (missing) in every MS (manuscript) of this epistle written before the invention of printing - one excepted, the Codex Montifortii, in Trinity College, Dublin. The other (manuscripts) which omit this verse amount to 112. It is (missing) in both the Syriac, all the Arabic, Ethiopic, the Coptic, Sahidic, Armenian, Slavonian, etc. - in a word, in all the ANCIENT versions but the Vulgate; and even of this version many of the most ancient and correct manuscripts have it not..."

In other words, it is not found in the ancient manuscripts from which the Bible was translated, except that one translation in the 8th century.

Therefore, verses 7 and 8 should CORRECTLY read: "There are three that bear record: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these agree as one."

This actually refers to baptism and the forgiveness of sin, of which time the Holy Spirit then enters into the new christian.

It has nothing to do with the trinity, because there is no such thing as the trinity. The trinity is manmade.

Answer 3

sister, do not give up. Have faith. If you read the passages that seem to say that he is not God you will find that not once did He ever say that He "WAS NOT" God. But He did say He was. He even allowed people to call Him God and didnt correct them. for example check out John 20:27- 29, here Thomas says to Him "My Lord and my God!" and Jesus says "Do you believe because you see me? How happy those who believe without seeing me!" And he's talking about us sister. So Yes Jesus is God in the flesh. Its kind of like water.... Water has three forms Solid, liquid, and gas, but it is all still water never the less. That is how God is, you have The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit but they are all still the same God.

Answer 4

I was tought to think about the Trinity like this:
Take a cherry pie...there are three distinct layers.
Top crust, filling, and bottom crust!
No one will argue that they are all the same pie, but they all play their own part. The Father is creator, guide, judge, and master. The Son is God in flesh...sent for the redemption of Man. Distinct, yet all together. The spirit is our explainer of the Word, and acts as our earthly guide. I hope that helped...

Answer 5

I agree with you. Try as I might, I just don't see a God that is three beings. Here is another verse that supports my belief that God is God and Jesus is His Son.
Matthew 24:36 (King James Version) But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matthew 24:36 (New International Version) No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[a] but only the Father.

Answer 6

They are equal. Neither is greater than the other. Jesus is God manifested in the flesh for man's sake. You must go through Jesus to get to God. What's so hard to understand?
It's like a family. You have a mother, father, and child (for example). Isn't the child part of the father(mother), at the same time they are of the same family. They have different abilities and personalities. You can look at it that way. Jesus is NOT God. He is Himself and God is the Father. He is also Himself.
Maybe you should seek God for understanding and stop asking man.

Answer 7

My dear, you are dealing with matters of faith here and not just human reasoning. Think about this, matters of faith can only be understood with faith and not logic or reason alone.

The word 'trinity' comes from the latin 'tres' (trinus, a, um) meaning three (triune). It is true that the word 'Trinity' is not found anywhere in the bible but we do read in the bible of 'God the Father' of 'Christ the Son' and of the 'Holy Spirit. And it is these three 'persons' (we use persons here for want of a better word) whom we call the 'Holy Trinity or simply 'Trinity. The Trinity is One. We do not confess three God's but one God in three persons, the 'consubstantial Trinity. The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire.

The expression 'Three persons' definitely asserts some sort of plurality in God, but God is one and the plurality is not that of 'persons' in God. There are biblical instances where God speaks of Himself pluralistically. In Genesis 1:26, it is written: Then God said, 'let us make man in our own image, in the likeness of ourselves...' Here, we see that us, our, and ourselves indicate plurality. This plurality, we have noted is that of persons and not of Divinity, the royal plurality.

Perhaps, this may be difficult to understand, but remember that we only speak about God anthropomorphically (That is using human language and terms to speak about God, an infinit and spiritual Being).

In Genesis 3:22 we also read: 'Then the Lord God said, 'Behold the man has become like one of us'. When we think about it our body which is material is not the only thing in us that makes us human. There is something in us which is spiritual and which we cannot see that, when taken away, we cease to be alive. That is also part of our being

Moreover, the trinitarian doctrine of the church is a mystery which we can only understand with our faith. The highest point (the apex) of human reasoning is the beginning of faith.

Though analogy in itself may not per ser explain that which they represent but they are used for the sole purpose of teaching and understanding. Therefore, analogically, how do you explain the marital mathematics where two plus two becomes one and not two.

Remember that with God all things are posible. If I remember correctly, there was this great philosopher that was finding it difficult to understand the Trinity. He was working beside an ocean contemplating the mystery of the trinity. He saw a small boy who dug a small hole on the ground. The little boy was running to the ocean, getting some water and pouring it into the hole. This phiolospher asked him what he was doing boy, he answered, I'm trying to fill this hole with the ocean. The phiolospher said to the boy, you fool, do you think you can fill the small hole with the ocean water. The boy replied, you fool, do you think that you can understand the mystery of the trinity and then the boy disappeared.

My dear friend, faith is very, very important here. According to the scripture, with faith as little as the mustard seed, we can do and understand lot of things. Let me stop here, I hope this would help.

Answer 8

Tertullian, one of the early church fathers, coined the term "Trinity." The word actually means "three-ness." Tertullian was an ardent supporter of orthodoxy in the church, and was one of the greatest defenders of the historic Christian faith.

A man named Arius was considered an arch-heretic of the church by denying that Jesus was God. This is one of the reasons the Council of Nicea was formed, to hash out what Christians believed about the nature of God. (Funny story: Nicolas, the bishop of Myra, Turkey, who is now known as St Nicholas/Santa Claus, slapped Arius across the face for denying that Christ was God. Nicolas was relieved of his position as bishop because of his rude behavior. He was later restored when he repented.)

The term "Trinity" is not found in the Scriptures, but the doctrine is clearly displayed. There are many times where Jesus said of Himself that He was God. He applied the name of God, "I AM," to Himself in several passages. Here's a few examples: Matthew 14:27, Mark 6:50, Mark 13:6, Luke 21:8, John 4:26, John 6:20, John 8:24, 28, 58, and John 13:19. There are several others I have not listed. Besides this, Jesus said that He & the Father were one (John 10:30). This describes a unity, even though there are two. (Note, the I AM passages I referred to are from the Greek, as the English translations often mistranslate I AM for "It is I" or "I am He," to allow for readability.)

The Trinity has an underlying appearance in the Old Testament as well. In Genesis, we see during creation that God said, "Let us make man in our image." and also when man sinned, God said, "...man has become as one of us, to know good and evil..." Who was He speaking to? The other persons of the Trinity. We also see that the Spirit of God hovered over the waters in the beginning, and in John 1:1-3, it clearly states that Jesus (the Word) made everything.

Another angle to pursue is the various Scriptures that demonstrate that God's attributes are present in Jesus as well as the Holy Spirit. For example, the Father is eternal (Psalm 90:2), and so is the Son (John 1:2), and so is the Holy Spirit (Hebrews 9:14). Another shared attribute is their holiness. Only God is truly holy. The Father is holy (Revelation 15:4), so is the Son (Acts 3:14), and so is the Spirit (Acts 1:8).

An ancient diagram of the Trinity can be helpful in getting your hands around the doctrine, and can be found at the link in the SOURCE list.

The Trinitarian doctrine requires much more depth of discussion than can occur here. It is important to know that we only have to believe, not necessarily understand, the Trinitarian nature of God. It is a bedrock doctrine of the Christian church.

RESPONDING TO LIBERTY: You're welcome! I am happy to help!

Answer 9

To simplify a bit, Jesus was the SON of GOD (the FATHER). He was sent to pass on the message from the FATHER to the people.

If you re-read those verses with that perspective, maybe it will be clearer.

Answer 10

Have you ever read any book that begged for so many questions?
Doesn't this tell you something?
If 3 to 5 thousand years ago some half-civilized moron decides to write a story describing what happened in the beginning of time, are you really obligated to believe this B.S. in order to save your a*ss from burning?