Christians... I got 2 questions for people well versed in the bible?

Question

1. Do you know any verses that support attending a church? I know that it is good to be in fellowship with other christians, but do not know what verses support it.

2. Now to go in a different direction. I believe in 1st or 2nd Corinthians, it talks about a man caught up in a certain level of heaven. What's up with that? I've read over it before, but I just read it a few weeks ago and it has stuck with me cuz I don't understand it or it's relevance. Please share your knowledge with me.

Answer 1

1) I will go along with Hebrews 10:25.

2) 2 Corinthians 12:2-4
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell.

The first heaven is the sky as in where the clouds are located. The second heaven is where the stars are located. And the third heaven is where God is calls home. Paul was caught up but does not or can not tell more about it. It was probably during one of the time that he had been stoned that this happened.

Answer 2

OH...ok

I'll let everyone else talk about church attendance.

Originally I thought you were talking about another verse but in 2 Corinthians 12:2: I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

This is one of many translation items that exist in the King James Version of the Bible. At the time and place of this translation people referred to the sky, space, and the spiritual heaven using the same word "heaven".

This being said, the translator attempted to assist the reader by expounding on the word heaven to read as "the third heaven" in order to eliminate confusion.

In future generations this actually caused more confusion.

Another example of this is the first two verses in Genisis.
"1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters"

Because verse 2 mentions water it sounds like there was a gap between verse 1 and verse 2. I'm not going to argue whether there is or not but it is not sound to base that belief on the fact that verse 2 contains the word "water".

When this verse was translated to the king james version the world was believed to be flat. It was and still is a difficult concept to understand the abbility to move or cause movement in a "void" or "state of nothing". So that was what the translator tried to explain by adding the word "Water". The Sea was the most void and vast thing imaginable to the readers at the time. However there are older translations of the Bible that do not contain the word water. (i.e. Greek)

So in short the verse 2 Corinthians 12:2 should read a little more like "I knew a man in Christ who was caught up to Heaven at least fourteen years ago. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. "

Answer 3

Here's a New Testament plan: There are 27 books in the New Testament, 260 chapters. If you want to read it through in 60 days, just divide it up. That would be 4-5 chapters a day. If you want to do it in 90 days, divide it up into 3 chapters a day. Easy. But make sure you are using a good translation - one easy to understand and yet accurate. I recommend the New Living Bible or the English Standard Version. also the New King James. And then, get a book like Haley's Bible Handbook to help you understand what you are reading. god bless

Answer 4

Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

1 Corinthians 12:7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. 28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

2 Corinthians 12:1 I must go on boasting. Though there is nothing to be gained by it, I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven--whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows. 3 And I know that this man was caught up into paradise--whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows-- 4 and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter.

Answer 5

1 Corinthians 14 : 34 and Hebrews 10:25

2 Corinthians Chapter 12 This is one of Paul's visions of paradise possibly while he was in Lystra. He shows his apostleship by his infirmities and he says during this vision that he cannot tell whether he was in the body or out of the body (meaning the man in the vision) but that God knoweth. Paul is telling of the value of afflictions.

Answer 6

hebrews 10 21-25
21And having an high priest over the house of God;

22Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

23Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


as for the manner of the levels of heaven its a very confusing manner. I have heard many many good arguments of the meaning. the one that I believe is that levels of heaven are actually reffering to heavely heirarchy. The Throne Room of god being on another level than the angels...ect....but the result is the same...still an interesting subject. also remember that the heavens are above earth so it could refer to the sky to space to heaven...

Answer 7

1. Don't forsake the assembling of yourselves together. Another related is don't be unequally yolked to unbelievers. Have Christian friends.
2. I think here Paul is talking about John and the book of Revelation. John was caught up to Heaven to see God.
Heaven can mean the Holy place where saved will go, and it can mean atmosphere and stars.

Answer 8

question 2. Paul was a Pharasee, honey. That means that he was a Jewish teacher, and if you look into Jewish theology of his time, you will find that there was a belief in different levels of heaven. Some of the levels are discussed in the book of Enoch, and I found it interesting but not authoratative. The book of Enoch can be found in "Lost Books of the Bible" and online. Just a fun sideline, not scripture.

Answer 9

Hebrews 10:25 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Answer 10

Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Here is what "Gills commentary" says
How that he was caught up into paradise,.... Not the earthly paradise in which our first parents were; this was destroyed by the flood, and the place where it was not now to be known; and to what purpose the apostle should be carried thither cannot be guessed at; though some have thought that this is here meant: but not this, nor any place distinct from the "third" heaven, or place of the blessed, is meant; which is the sense of many of the ancients, who suppose the third heaven and paradise to be two distinct places, and that the apostle had two separate raptures. Clemens Alexandrinus (m), reads the words thus, "I knew a man in Christ caught up to the third heaven, κακειθεν εις τον παραδεισον, from thence to paradise"; and so Theophilact upon the place says, "from the third heaven he was immediately called up into paradise"; and so Oecumenius, "he was caught up unto the third heaven, and so again from thence into paradise"; and some modern writers have been inclined to think there were two raptures, and the rather inasmuch as the apostle is said to be caught "up to" the one, and caught "up into" the other, and makes use of the words "caught up" twice; or otherwise he would be guilty of a tautology, both in that and in repeating his ignorance of the manner of the rapture; to which is added, that he proposed to speak of "visions" and "revelations" in the plural number, 2Co_12:1, and afterwards calls this vision an "abundance of revelations", 2Co_12:7, but as it was at the same time that he was caught up to the third heaven, and into paradise, there being one and the same date of fourteen years ago to both; and as, in the account of the one and the other, he was equally ignorant of the manner how he was caught up, whether in the body, or out of the body; and seeing that there is no account of what he saw and heard in the third heaven, but only what he heard in paradise, which is referred to be told in the after account of this vision; and as the third heaven and paradise are one and the same place, it seems most reasonable to conclude, that not two raptures and two visions are here designed, but only one; and without any show of a vain repetition, the apostle having begun the account of this vision, might reassume what he had said, in order to give a more plain and clear account of it; and especially as there were some things he had not yet mentioned, and the whole was not easy to be understood and taken in, and the manner of it even unknown to himself; and this he might do to raise the attention the more unto it, as being something wonderful and extraordinary; besides, if his design had been to have given an account of two raptures, he would have distinguished them in a numerical way; and would have told us that he was twice caught up, as well as he afterwards says that he besought the Lord "thrice", at another time; and this would have been necessary to have prevented a mistake, of taking the one and the other for the same rapture, as is generally done; heaven is called paradise, because as the garden of Eden, which bears that name, was of God's planting, so is this made and prepared by him; as that was a delightful place, so is this; also because of Christ the tree of life, which is in the midst of it, besides an innumerable company of angels, and spirits of just men made perfect, the pure and undefiled inhabitants of it; and because of the river of divine love, of endless pleasures, the saints there are made to drink of. It was usual with the Jews to call heaven גן עדן, "the garden of Eden", or paradise; and which they (n) sometimes speak of as upper and lower; the lower they suppose the souls of men are introduced into, immediately upon their dissolution; where they stay a while, and then go up to the upper paradise, the world of souls, where Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are. The Jews ought not to object to the apostle's being had into paradise before his death, for they tell us of several that entered there whilst alive;

"nine (they say (o)). נכנסו בחייהם בגן עדן, "entered in their life time into the garden of Eden", or paradise; and these are they, Enoch the son of Jared, and Elijah, and the Messiah, and Eliezer the servant of Abraham, and Hiram king of Tyre, and Ebed Melec the Ethiopian, and Jabez the son of Rabbi Judah the prince, and Bethiah the daughter of Pharaoh, and Sarah the daughter of Asher; and there are some that say also (p) Rabbi Joshua ben Levi";

and in another place (q),

"four נכנסו בפרדס, entered into paradise; and these are they, Ben Azzai, and Ben Zoma, another, and R. Akiba;''

upon which is (r) added,

"they entered into paradise as it were by the hands of God, and they did not ascend up above really, but it seemed to them as if they ascended;''

how far this may serve to explain and illustrate the apostle's case, I leave, with this observation more concerning another use of the word paradise with them; which sometimes signifies a considerable share of knowledge of mysterious things, relating to the nature of God, angels, &c. of which Maimonides having spoken, says (s),

"these things the former wise men called פרדס, "paradise", as they say, "four entered into paradise": and although they were the greatest men of Israel, and exceeding wise men, yet they had not all of them power to know and comprehend all these things clearly; and I say, that he is not fit to walk בפרדס, "in paradise", but he whose belly is filled with flesh and bread, and it is bread and flesh to know what is forbidden, and what is lawful, and the other precepts of a like nature;''

and again (t),

"a man that is filled with all these virtues (meaning with wisdom, and understanding, and government of the passions and appetites) is perfect in his body, as he that enters into paradise, and inclines himself to these things which are great and afar off:''

once more (u),

"the words of the tradition are comprehended in the written law, and the exposition of them in the oral law; and the things which are called פרדס, paradise, are contained in the Talmud;''

this they (w) call פרדס החכמה, "the paradise of wisdom"; whether this sense and use of the word may be applied to the passage before us, and so be expressive of that large share of divine knowledge which was communicated in an extraordinary way to the apostle, may deserve some consideration: however, this is certain, that when he was caught up into paradise, he

heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter; to instance in particular things, which be then either saw or heard, as some have done, is bold and daring; as that he saw the divine Being with the eyes of his understanding, the several angelic forms, thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers, and the glory and beauty of the souls of departed saints; and heard the harmonious music of each of these happy creatures; had a view of the book of life, and was shown the order and method of divine predestination; was let into the mystery of the calling of the Gentiles, and the change that will be on living saints, and heard the whole account of the dispensation of things, in the church of Christ to the end of the world: the things were unspeakable, never yet related, and so not to be known: they were such things which the apostle himself, when out of the rapture, might have but very inadequate ideas of, and such as he was not able to put into proper words and language to be understood by others; and which as he heard them not from a mere man, but from the Lord, so no mere man was able to utter them, none but he of whom he had heard them: and besides, whatever conceptions the apostle might have of them himself, and how capable soever he was of expressing them; yet they were not fit and proper to be told in the present state of things, being no part of the counsel of God relating to man's salvation, the whole of which he faithfully declares; and yet were necessary to be heard by him, in order to establish his faith in the Gospel, to animate him in his ministry, and fortify his mind against all the afflictions, reproaches, and persecutions, he was to meet with for the sake of Christ. The phrase seems to be the same with אי אפשר לאמרו, "it is impossible to say it" (x); and of such like secret things in paradise, or the world of souls, the Jews say (y) that

"they are hidden, and which אינם ראוים לעלות בכתיבה, "are not fit to produce in writing";''

and so these were such as were not lawful to speak out, γλωσσαις ανθρωπιναις, "with human tongues", as Justin Martyr says (z); they were not in such sense "unspeakable", as not to be expressed by any; for they were expressed either by Christ himself, who was glorified in human nature, whom the apostle might now see and hear, or by some angel or angels, or they could not have been heard by the apostle as they were; but they were such as before never been spoken to any mortal man, and so could never have been spoken by any; and though they had been spoken to a mortal man, yet they could not be spoke by him to others; for though when he heard them, his human soul, for that present time, might conceive and take in much of the nature and meaning of them, yet they were such as he could not express by words, and represent to others by speech after the vision was over, and especially at this distance: not that it was sinful to have done it, if he could have done it; or that the things themselves were of such a nature, that it would have been criminal to have rehearsed them; but rather that it was impossible to do it, at least fully, since they might greatly regard the glory of the divine Being, and the worship paid him by the heavenly inhabitants: or could it be done in any tolerable manner, it might not be altogether convenient and proper in the present state of things; since the worship of the upper world lying in praise without prayer, might not be so fit to be related, lest it should be imitated by saints on earth: and seeing what the apostle heard was ineffable, and not to be spoken by himself; no credit is to be given to those spurious things called the Revelation and Ascension of Saint Paul, in which the author or authors of them pretend to tell us what these things were.

(m) Strom. l. 5. p. 586. (n) Nishma Chayim, par. 1. c. 10. fol. 25. 2. &c. (o) Derech Eretz, fol. 19. 1. Zohar in Exod, fol. 102. 3. (p) Ganz Tzemach David, par. 1. fol. 31. 1, 2. (q) T. Bab. Chagiga, fol. 14. 2. (r) Tosephot, ib. (s) Jesode Tora, c. 5, sect. 19, 20. (t) Jesode Tora, c. 7. sect. 2. (u) Ib. Talmud Tora, c. 1. sect. 12. (w) Tzeror Hammor, fol. 96. 4. (x) T. Bab. Megilla, fol, 21. 1. (y) Nishmat Chayim, fol. 28. 1. (z) Expositio fidei, p. 379.
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