The NYPD fired 51 bullets to kill one guy?

Question

Do they need some marksmanship practice or what? It is my understanding that it was very close range. Or is the 9mm caliber just too small of a bullet to do significant damage? Should the Police upgrade to .45 caliber?

Im not questioning the police shooting. They felt threatened and defended themselves. We have one less scumbag in this world to terrorize the decent people, that's a good thing. But perhaps if they had been carrying heavier firepower (or were more accurate), we could have improved those numbers to 3 dead scumbags!

Mayor Bloomberg is a retard. He has never been a police officer and needs to mind his own business. Same goes for Sharpton.

Answer 1

The real question here was caliber of bullet.

Just like the basic round in the army is a 5.56mm, and most would argue thats too light of a round to be effective against the Ak's of the world, i think the 9mm is the perfect round that preserves the ideals the police shoudl strive for.

a 45 or even a 40 cal would be nice, but its the 9mm that requires control of weapon control of mind. We dont want our officers blowing away everythign that comes there way. We shoot with intent on subdoeing the perpetrator, not straight killing him.

Yes, it does pose a risk for our officers, and puts them in more harms way when gang members carrying around high powered weapons that inflict more damage then our officers.
But our officers need to use restraint. thats the key. And the 9mm helps keep that ideal for restraint ever present.

Now, whether or not I agree on 51 shots being fired.
Couldnt say. One officer reloaded 3 times - that would be 46 shots from one officer wouldnt it 1 chambered 15 per mag.

With hindsight, and the fact that none of us were there, would be difficult to truly judge the situation.
But I say, when are we going to support out officers' judgement under fire, just as we should support our troops for the terrible jobs they must endure.

Until you have put yourself in harms way in that way, I dont think anyone can truly judge the situation correctly.

Me personally, if someone attacked me, or the guy fighting next to me, with a vehicle, theyd get every round I had.

Theres reports of a 4th guy getting away.
Wouldnt it be funny, if he showed a gun, or he was the one that presented a threat and forced the shooting somehow.

I spit on all those people who are quick to judge the situation without having ever served in the military or as a police officer, and who fail to sympathize with our boys in blue, who have the 2nd toughest job in all the world.

1st would be kicking in doors as the #1 2 3 or 4th man and doing that over and over again for a year, or more.

This is a good debate question, but you havent earned a say until youve served.

My opinion anyways!

Answer 2

Even Mayor Blumberg says it was excessive and that the shooting violated department guidelines. It may well have also been entirely unjustified. Yes, the cops should upgrade to a more potent handgun than a 9mm. But they should pay far more attention to when the blamed things should be and should NOT be used.

As for the precise number of shots: these are human beings, who are as scared as you or I would be when confronted with a potentially deadly opponent. In Syracuse, New York within the past several years, there was an incident in which seven uniformed city officers emptied their weapons at one suspect - they ALL missed! Without addressing whether the use of deadly force was justified, that points to several obvious conclusions: (1) the police need MUCH more training in the use of issued firearms (2) the police need MUCH more training in how to respond to a threatening situation, and (3) citizens better do EXACTLY what the cops tell them to do so the frightened cops don't waste THEM!

And here's a question for YOU: why do you automatically assume these were "scumbags"? According to the official report, none of the cops was in uniform, the police car they ran into was an UNMARKED car, none of the cops identified himself as a cop, and the area is noted as being troubled from time to time by armed gangs - the fear of which might well explain the three unfortunate men's attempts to flee. You're a typical white racist, my man, to presume they were scumbags - you have no good reason to say such a thing, and one has therefore to assume you're saying it just because they were (the "N" word). Too bad you haven't the good grace to recognize your own bigotry and overcome it.

Answer 3

Actually, the number of bullets is not as big an issue as it might seem. Even one is enough to kill you!

Shooting is a binary decision - either you shoot or you don't. "Shooting to wound" is garbage from the movies.

If you feel enough danger to fire your weapon, you empty your clip at the center of mass - chest - killing the person. If you don't feel that deadly force is justified, you shouldn't be shooting at all.

If only two or three (or eight, or twelve) shots were fired, there would indeed have been less likelyhood that that poor man would have been killed. MAYBE. But again, if they weren't sure enough to empty their weapons at the target, they shouldn't be shooting at all.

I heard something about some law enforcement manual saying that an officer should fire three times and then pause for a second, but I would suppose that that too is premised on the idea that three bullets striking the target is enough to kill you.

I don't know enough about the guns in question to comment on your suggestion to switch official firearms. I'd say that the police have a tough job, and deserve to have all the tools they need to do it.

Bottom line: obviously the case is tragic, and possibly criminal. It needs to be thoroughly investigated.

Answer 4

They shot 51 times at a moving target, and hit 30 times. I think that they spent enough time on the shooting range.

The problem with the shoot is that they shot the wrong guys. Accuracy was not an issue.

Is the 9mm too small? That's a personal question, but my opinion is, "Yes". Should they go the .45? No. Not enough round capacity in that magazine. Stick with the 10mm / .40 S&W.

Answer 5

At 35ft, the bullet would not be able to the contact you in any respect. both pistol and rifle rounds do not even attain 10 ft in the previous slowing down thoroughly. So no, a bullet fired underwater received't kill you till the shooter is less than 5 ft faraway from you.

Answer 6

Yeah - they fired 51 bullets. He drove a 2,000 pound car, which he backed up and rammed into their vehicles. Twice.
The moral of that story is: Don't go to clubs where there are prostitutes and drugs, don't pick up "Dancers" on the night before your wedding, and don't take a car to a gunfight.

As for .45 cal. it stops people better. I think that it should be the standard issue instead of 9mm.

Thank you for your comments about Bloomberg. If Rudy was still mayor, that club would be shut down, and AL Sharpton would be running his mouth somewhere else.

Answer 7

Bullets are cheap, officers' lives are priceless.

The standard method, especially with those 9mm semi-autos, is to keep firing until the threat is eliminated, the target down and not moving. And after the first pull, the subsequent shots are very easy to tap off rapid fire. And when it is night, with a target in a moving vehicle? You're going to fire until you're sure.

Not sure why people get all weird about how many shots were fired. Does it matter if you were killed by 3 shots or 30 shots? It seems the silliest of things to worry about.

Answer 8

Sometimes in the heat of heat moment, things go kind of crazy, but keep in mind that a vehicle can be a deadly weapon, and the officers fired (as much as they did) to "stop", the action. In a controlled environment when you are shooting at a target, is totally different than the heat of the moment and when you in fear of losing your life. That is something, "no one" (uless it has happed to you) can truly understand what was going through the officers mind and the suspects mind. But as for the caliber, I truly believe all officers should upgrade.

Answer 9

You or I were not there and one cop was hit by the car pluss they ran into a police car ,it is clear there was a lot of action going on with alcohol and dope involved no doubt, at 2/am in the morning ,If you were a cop and seen your buddy get run over by a car and the car then smash into your police car how would you stop them ? My question is why dont someone ask how is the cop doing ?? and what kind op people go around smashing into police cars ?

Answer 10

To the above poster: It wasn't five white ignorant police officers that shot at a guy that hit an officer with a car. There were two black ignorant officers, one hispanic ignorant police officer, and two white ignorant police officers. You are an idiot do some research before you cast blame.