Atheists versus Christians... defend your position?

Question

Though I've defined myself as an Atheist for the past 6 or 7 years or so, I've recently come to declare myself an Agnostic, simply due to my inability to knowingly, concretely prove or refute the existence of God. And yes, I'm aware that there are, of course, many other religions beside Christianity that put stock into some sort of higher being(s), but Christians definitely seem to come under fire more often by Atheists.

But in all actuality, isn't the Atheistic position just as "ignorant" as Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or any other proponent of any religion that claims to have the answer? Who here can prove the existence or nonexistence of a higher power? Sure, someone could say that they find it highly improbable or illogical to believe in a higher power, and I would certainly be among them. But to completely refute the potential existence is operating on that same claim, just relying on a different form of faith.

Answer 1

You are 1000% correct. I too used to be an athiest, but gave it up when I finally grasped that it is simply another form of "fundamentalism." And if you require proof of that assertion, just tune into these pages and look at the bible-thumpers sending everyone to Hell and preaching hate at the tops of their lungs. And look at the athiests spewing the same arrogant, self-satisfied (dare I say, "self righteous?") garbage. What they fail to grasp is that they are flip-sides of the same coin that says -- "I KNOW THE TRUTH, AND IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH ME YOU'RE A TOTAL LOSER AND blah, blah, blah..."

There are only two rationally defensible positions to take on religion: Agnosticism and Fideism.

They both say, "I don't know, because the topic is unknowable."
The agnostic says, "Though I don't know, the preponderance of evidence does not lead me to believe -- so in my life I will operate as though God does not exist, and freely admit that I could be wrong."

Likewise the fideist says, "Though I don't know, the sense of personal immediacy I feel affirms God's existence to me. And while recognizing that objectively, I too may be wrong, I will nevertheless treat the existence of God as a personal fact."

The thing that unites and elevates both agnosticism and fideism above the nonsense is that each recognizes the importance for ordinate intellectual humility in the face of what we do not, and cannot, know. You'll never find either group making threats, or hurling insults at the integrity of another's belief systems. And if we all behaved this way, the world would be a safer, saner, and altogether more hospitable place to live. There's just far too much shouting going on.

Wonderful to meet a kindred spirit. Cheers, mate.

Answer 2

I agreed with your position for a long time, until I realized that the term "atheist" is misused.

The position that you describe (refuting the existence of all diety) is typically termed "strong atheism" or "positive atheism". This particular form of atheism obviously makes unproven assumptions, and is not completely defendable. Not all atheists support this point, however.

You probably already know this, but the term "atheist" is derived from the Greek word "theus", meaning "god". The prefix "a" simply means "without". Thus an atheist is a person without gods. Any person who does not believe in gods is, by definition, an atheist, whether they actively deny that gods exist or not. Thus, it is possible to be both agnostic and athiestic at the same time. This is typically termed "negative" or "weak" atheism.

Like you, I normally identify myself as an agnostic, simply because the term "atheist" is so widely misused. Personally I prefer the term "fundamentalist agnostic", ie. I don't think that it's possible to answer the god question.

I've been thinking about getting a bumper sticker that says, "Fundamentalist Agnostic - I don't know and you don't either!"

Answer 3

It makes perfect sense to refute the potential existence of something, if that "something" has no convincing evidence in its favor. A lot of things have the POTENTIAL to exist, but you and I and everyone else still reject them. Think about all the things that you, I assume, are absolutely positive that you don't believe in: Fairies, unicorns, giants, all sorts of things. Do you leave the door open for any of those things to possibly be true? No. Chances are, unless you see some evidence, you've already rejected the potential existence of those creatures. The same should be true for God. No, you can't prove the nonexistence of a higher power. And yes, a higher power might potentially exist. But until someone presents a convincing case or a piece of evidence or some physical proof, it makes perfect sense to reject the concept.

Answer 4

you don't actually need to prove it, you only need to prove that it is the best guess. that's what beliefs are, practically speaking.

why do we have the word "proven" if nothing actually can be so? even mathematical proofs are subject to human or mechanical error, although I would suggest that a rigorous mathematical proof is a stronger sort of proof than experimental proof.

But my point is this: absolutely no, the atheistic (not capitalized I don't think) position is not at all as ignorant as the religions you listed. Citing Occam's Razor, we can't introduce such an unlikely and complex concept as a god into our worldview without having some sort of need, something that it helps explain.

Answer 5

I had known since I was a child that there was no god. I have seen that god does nothing to help humanity in any way or form, and that all of the good works done in his name are the works of people themselves seeking to do good. The same thing can be said of all of the evil in the world attributed to the name of god. Besides, I have read the Bible, and the Quoran, and have determined that if god is real, and this is his policy, then god is not a good person and does not have our best interests at heart. Since it is impossible to prove the negative, that god does not exist, I have to go by the opposite standard that the lack of evidence is evidence against the existence of god.

I will ring your doorbell and run away!!!

Answer 6

Its the same posturing in defense of ones religious beliefs that is destroying the world.
Defending what I believe is not necessary. I'm free from religious oppression and have a reservation to judge the world through the eyes of God.

I pray you never have to stand before me in court.

Only by the blood of the lamb shall you pass through the gates of heaven, because nothing you do or say will matter.

If nothing else gets through to you, remember this.
Don't believe anything you see in this life and only half of what you see.
Life is not about who ever has the most toys wins. It's about making preparations for an eternity.

Answer 7

I was raised Christian so I acknowledge that. In my search for enlightenment I find I'm more spiritual than religious. My point is I would think that you would have to believe in something, what you choose is your business but it would seem to me being physical and spiritual creatures your heart will lead you in the direction. (I've looked into some pagan religions) The problem with Christians and as I was raised is there is a no tolerance policy for any other religion and the bible supports that ideal.

Answer 8

My friend, I could come up with a very intelligent sounding answer, but I wont.

How can you possibly understand that I just know, and other born again Christians just KNOW too, with the SAME assurance, that what we have IS the way, the truth and the life. We have this assurance not because it is taught to us, but because Jesus Christ puts it into our hearts.

With Him, we have a very real, very personal relationship. And that is how I know what I know what I know.

Answer 9

I am an atheist but don't pretend to know everything in the world. but I do know for sure, if there were a god, he wouldn't be invisible. why would he be. that just doesn't make sense. I'm not defending atheism because I don't have to. the term speaks for itself.

Answer 10

In as much as I was not around to see how everything came into being (and neither were you),I say, "I don't know ..... YET!" To assume that some god, my less than intellectual ancestors made up, instantaneously farted the universe into being, is absurd