A question for 100% hardcore Atheists?

Question

Why do you feel you possess the knowledge that deities do not exist? How is lack of "proof" proof of anything? Most importantly, why does Atheism make more sense to you than Agnosticism? Try not to answer with "God doesn't exist, that's why" because that's too similar to the Christian retort that "God exists, that's why". I'm just trying to understand why you would rule out any one possibility.

I don't have a diety. Dieties serve no purpose in my life yet that does not prove to me that they do/don't exist. I realize I'm trying to simplify something that's complex. I only believe that I'm not able to prove anything, not even my own birthday, without relying on facts that are "proven" by someone else. I was just interested in hearing from someone that "knows" something that I feel is unknowable. It's not a big deal.

Bad Liberal and d_chino_m: I like your responses. I do agree with you but somewhere in my heart I still do wonder if dragons, the tooth fairy and elves, etc. did/do exist. I never said I denied the existence of anything.

Elphaba: You have a stick up your "you know what". I don't believe in whatever diety you claim I believe in. Don't answer questions you object to. Get off your high horse and stop reading into things.

weemaryanne: No where did I say that I did or didn't believe in those "characters". I don't know if they were/are "real". I'm very interested in what god you think I believe in since I did not realize I believed in one! You have truly enlightened me.

Answer 1

Okay, I'll rise to this one.

Atheists don't demand proof, they demand evidence. They are not the same thing. Evidence is always partial, and atheists know this. If something is offered as evidence, it should be considered and attempts made to undermine it. If these attempts are not successful, the evidence can be considered valid, for the time being (new ways of challenging it may emerge later).

In the specific case for or against God, there is no evidence whatever for the existence of God or for the truth of the bible stories. Not One Jot. All the ancient questions such as "why do we have rainbows?" which were answered in theological terms, are now more satisfactorily answered by scientific means. Evidence for god has diminished while evidence for non-theistic explanations has piled up. This evidence is under constant scrutiny and is always shifting, but the balance lies firmly against the existence of god. All the theist has to do to persuade any atheist that there is a god is to offer evidence of his existence that cannot be explained in ANY other way - not presuming God as a default, but God as an answer. Should be simple.

Atheism is preferable to agnosticism because agnosticism seems to want both options left open without committing philosophically to either. If the argument is that agnosticism makes sense because how can one KNOW that there is not God, well, why not also be agnostic about dragons, leprachauns, goblins and santa claus. While these cannot be proved NOT to exist, the agnostic should keep the benefit of the doubt. The atheist does not demand proof of a negative which is impossible. He says "I'll believe something once you offer the slighest convincing evidence in its favour, but until then, the defaul option is non-belief." This rule holds true for dragons, leprachauns, goblins, etc, as well as god. Holding different standards of proof for one non-provable supernatural entity over another? Now THAT'S intellectual dishonesty.

And finally, no atheist would ever utter such a stupid answer as "God doesn't exist, that's why". I'm sure you realize this really.

Hope this helps.

Answer 2

I do not believe in anything that has a total lack of any measurable evidence. I would reconsider any position that I take upon presentation of said evidence. Any shred of real evidence would likely make me an agnostic, but since that is lacking I am left with the belief that there is no god.

It also doesn't philosophically answer anything for me. Where did the Universe com from? Well God made it. OK, so where did God come from? Well he was always here. -- You could have saved yourself the step and just said the Universe was always here. It didn't answer a thing, just delayed the question a step. And there was no evidence to support that step so why make it up out of thin air like that?

Finally I will point out the total lack of knowledge presented by the religious texts about how things came to be. Evolution is not mentioned by any of them. It is very obvious from the fossil record that life on Earth gradually became more complex over a long period of time. It is equally obvious that the whole Earth was not flooded at one time. It is also plain by the fact that we can see things millions of light years away, that the Universe is at least millions of years old or that light would not have gotten here yet. Surely if the texts were divinely inspired, there would have been some predictions made that would only recently have been confirmed.

I can give you a few examples: The Big Bang theory predicted background radiation left over from the initial explosion that took decades to find because the instruments that could detect it were not invented yet. Einstein predicted time shifting at high speeds and that was finally confirmed when the atomic clocks got accurate enough and the jets could go fast enough to test it out. Predictions like these are pretty strong evidence that a theory is at least partly right. There is NOTHING in the texts that I have seen like this.

The burden of evidence always lies with the guy who puts forth a theory. It is really easy to make up something that can't be disproven, especially when the proof is a moving target like religions always make it. If you want to put forth a theory, it is up to you to explain why. There is NO measurable evidence supporting the existence of a God and there are A LOT of people looking for that evidence. When they find some I can reconsider, but I really never expect that they will.

Answer 3

I am a weak atheist: I do not believe god exists, because I have never seen proof.

I do not take the position that I have unquestionable knowledge that god does not exist, also known as a strong atheist. This position is intellectually dishonest.

However, I can answer your question by posing my own:
Do you believe Zeus exists? Do you have ANY proof to support your position?

Assumedly your answer is No. And if you are honest you would admit you have no evidence for the non-existence of Zeus.

Hopefully you can see that an equivalent position is taken when relating to your particular deity.

Regarding agnosticism, I find it useless. A true agnostic would not be able to come to a decision for all things unproveable; from deities to the tooth fairy. However the majority of agnostics simply refrain from making a decisiion regarding God alone, yet will confidently state Santa Claus / Tooth Fairy etc. do not exist.

Agnostics are atheists without balls.

Answer 4

Atheist... Don't know if I fit that label, I like to think of myself closer to someone you might know. You know ... Thomas didn't believe until he was show the evidence that what others were saying had happened.

No one has shown me any evidence that God (current crop of them versus out dated ones) exists. If you have even a little evidence of the existance of God. As the saying goes "Put up or Shut up"

Answer 5

Okay, it's true that there's no proof of the existence, or non-existence, of god -- but that's not what I'm looking for. There's a difference between proof and evidence, and it's the complete lack of evidence that convinces me there is no such thing as god.

Furthermore, I'm not ruling out one possibility -- I've ruled out a whole multitude of possible gods. Odin, Zeus, Quetzalcoatl, Vishnu, you name him/her/it, I don't believe he/she/it/they exist or ever existed.

Come to think of it, _you_ don't believe in most of those characters, either. You're ALMOST a 100% atheist, too. The only difference between us is one god -- the one you believe in and I don't.

Answer 6

In as much as I was not around to see how everything came into being (and neither were you),I say, "I don't know ..... YET!" To assume that some god, my less than intellectual ancestors made up, instantaneously farted the universe into being, is absurd

Answer 7

Who the hell are you to judge? Why do you feel you possess the privilege to damn anyone who doesn't believe in deities that you feel exist? I don't feel God exists...end of story. That's my belief, and I don't feel the need to explain, but it's something the Holy Self Righteous Pico demands.

I've studied psycology, religion, and history for many years and I feel there is a direct link between the past leaders' desire to control the masses and religion. I've also studied science which is a lot more believable to me than "God did it."

Answer 8

I don't see the point of deities. Things that serve no purpose do not exist.

Answer 9

I guess I'm a weak atheist too, by definition.

Lack of proof proves there is no proof. I need proof to surrender myself to a concept.

I rule out possibilities that appear downright impossible.

edit - Bad Liberal, you blow my mind! : )

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Answer 10

you didn't give the definition of god...