Should we take pride in our war with Iraq?

Question

It is good Saddam is no longer in power. That aside, we went into Iraq because of lies. Would staying there as long as possible be misdirected pride? We must clean up the mess that we were tricked into, but a real man knows when something is worth standing up for and when he should remain silent. Our fine men and women of the Armed Forces should be proud that they served. What I'm trying to ask is whether we, America, might wind up in an un-winnable situation that we could avoid, but might be led by false pride into getting more of our brave soldiers wounded and killed for little reason? Do we have the men, money, and willpower to continue operations that were initiated by lies and have led us to fighting multiple social movements (insurgencies) in the freaking Middle East? What are your thoughts?

Answer 1

Before I answer this question, I'd like to bring up something that really bothers me deeply concerning Iraq, would we be so regretful if we had successfully converted Iraq to a democracy with complete peace?

The question I have been screaming BEFORE the war started has been, "Does the means justfiy the end?" What if this end had been a success? Would most be sitting around feeling good about America?... feeling good about themselves? ... even though current civilian Iraqi body count is over 600k?... even though we never had a valid nor justiable reason to occupy Iraq?...

Of course you know my feelings on this... immoral means never justfiy an end even if that end is successful. What about all those ppl that have died? What about the loyal, committed soldiers that followed their country's orders... not just American soldiers btw.

So once again, we should not take any pride in any way, shape or manner for our leader's invasion of Iraq.

Is there ever a time to take pride in participating in a war? I think so. I did an Army tour in the mid-80s then when Saddam invaded Kuwait, one of our allies, I volunteered to come out of inactive status to participate. Why? Because I truly thought we, as a WORLD, had progressed past the days of barbaric occupations of invading just because you are stronger than the other guy. I took pride in that war because I compared it to a bully beating up a little child... that we were fighting the bully. Now, we are the bully.

I can't begin to describe in words the disappointment I have in my country due to our actions. And what gets me now is the length of time it took ppl to come to this realization. I was a voice from the beginning saying it was wrong... most of these ppl against it were the ones in 2003 with those ribbons on the back of their mini-vans, American flags outside their homes... telling me I was anti-American or unpatriotic for not supporting my president.

I'm serious. How many of you out there reading this either didn't have an opinion or was pro-Iraqi war because you thought it was going to be a cake walk? You were so sure we would just walk over the Iraqis and be the WINNERS. You never stopped to ask about our reasons... were they justified. America is going to war and we are going to kick some *** then come home like nothing winning.. showing the world 'who we are'.

For example, that Cindy Shehan (spelling) that camped outside of Bush's home in Texas in protest of the war AFTER her son died in Iraq. Where was her protest before her son died? I'd be willing to bet that up to that point, she was one of those ppl driving those mini-vans proudly with the ribbons on the back before that.

Some ppl compare Iraq to Vietnam. While I see some comparisons, believe it or not, Vietnam at least had a reason. Vietnam was about containment. Containment is a word used to describe the stopping of the spreading of communism of that era. While I never saw how the spread of communism threatens us, at least they gave us a real,honest reason.

Now to get the core of your question... what should we do now, knowing what we know now about the lies?

Up to a week ago, I was on the fence about this. I literally could not decide. On one hand, I don'f feel good about making a mess of their country, the 100,000s that have died then leaving them to somehow find a way. On the other hand, I was thinking we couldn't win... win in terms of ever helping those ppl to 'get along' in a civil manner.

I have since, just in the past few days, come to a realization... we need to get out. Why and what caused my choice, decision?

It all came together for me a few days ago when I read about some Shiites that had kidnapped 25 sunnis, took them into the streets and then burned them alive. Not only did they do this, Iraqi troops stood by and watched and an American helicopter patrolling took no action.

This action was not the reason I made my decision but it is what caused me to sit down and do some deep thinking... how or what made Iraqi get to that point?... not just killing each other in a civil war but my God, literally torturing each other in the streets in the most brutal manner possible... right in front of women, children, etc...

We are not talking about terrorists... we are not talking about insurgents.... these are the Iraqi civilians that we are there to help build a civilized democracy. Their level of discontent is beyond most American's imagination... that was part of my thoughts in my analysis.

In conclusion and to get to the point of my answer, we need to get out for two reasons:
1. We can not solve their civil war.
2. We are making it worse by being there.

#2 is the most important reason for withdrawal. We turned their country upside down and caused 100,000s of them to die. If I thought for half a second we could fix what we have done, I would be a 110% supporter to stay and fix it; but, that is not reality. The reality is that the longer we stay, the more they resent us, the more unrest there will be.

There is going to be a civil war whether we are there or not. Because we can not pick a side, there is nothing we can do to stop it.

Note: Have you heard the latest that more Iraqi civilians died in October than any month since 2003.. the year we invaded.

Lastly, I am not saying that we pull a Vietnam and pull out without any assistance at all. I think we need to discontinue military support and start a humanitarian and financial support. Anybody can be bought. I think that is where we have failed with other groups such as Hamas. Hamas's animosity towards Israel comes mostly from their resenting Israel's success while they suffer an enormous unemployment rate. You can't tell me if we threw money at them, they wouldn't be more apt to chill out and at least listen.

With all this said, the core final solution to this problem is to divide Iraq into two maybe three countries.

Note: last week on PBS, there was a segment about how 70% of Iraqis have moved from their homes into new areas in the past year.

So, since most of them have already moved, it's not like we would be uprooting them from their homes.

And since they are doing this on their own, I'd be willing to bet if we presented this solution to them where maybe we enforced their borders, I'd bet you money they would take the offer. Then after the borders were decided on.. which wouldn't be real easy but at least would probably temporarily move their focus from a civil war to this idea, then we could fund each segment.

Some might not like the idea of throwing money at them. I say it is a lot cheaper in the long run than paying billions for military action, it is a set answer and it saves lives on both sides.

One last point or note, many Washington analysts are saying saying we will not be in Iraq two more years. Why? They are saying there is no way the Republican party wants to be in Iraq when the next election comes around.

Answer 2

Just because everything was removed ahead of our troops securing the territory doesn't mean the WMDs were not there. It is believed Russian special forces "spetsnatz" removed them by truck convoy to Syria disguised as "flood aid". The facilities that they delayed UN inspectors entrance to for hours or even weeks were stripped clean of all equipment that had been tagged by inspectors, sometimes the buildings were even removed and topsoil excavated and trucked away before we captured those areas. That was an awful lot of work if they had nothing to hide. It would have been better to have caught them with the goods, but it would not have changed the situation now. Under Saddam violence was so bad for non-Sunnis they don't think they are worse off, but now they are extracting revenge, encouraged and armed by fellow shiite regimes in Iran and Syria. It is very likely we will either have to yield to Iran, or engage them, in which case the presence in Iraq is very strategic and why Iran and Syria so desperately want to drive us out. That is why successfully installing a democracy and a stable, violence free Iraq would be such a victory to us, and such a threat to all the tyrants in the Middle East,which is why those tyrants are doing all they can to make problems. They know the power of the news media, and they now that every death is counted and that such attrition and publicity will bring down the weak willed (psychological warfare, part of Muhammad's strategy) and cause them to surrender/retreat. There is also the benefit that this presence in Iraq has caused people from all over the world who hate the USA to travel there to attack our troops and civilian aid workers, anyone who might be an American no matter how much good they are doing for the civilians, or how many Iraqi civilians they kill in the crossfire. We will have to fight them sooner or later,and only a fool chooses to fight a war in their own dooryard. Plus the basic strategic truth is a battle proven soldier is worth twenty fresh recruits, so don't enlist if you are afraid of having to fight. War is inevitable, 9/11 proved that. Hatred and propaganda can get you attacked and killed even when you are minding your own business at home or office. Unfortunatly the world has grown too small for isolationism to work, these are countries who don't want to stand up to us or compete with us, they want to attack, destroy, overule, bury us and demand our surrender. Yes I'd like to think a big wall or missile defense shield around the USA will solve the problem, but that is a fantasy. The reality is if you want to protect yourself and family then you need to check out what Homeland Security advises in case of a nuclear or biological weapon event, to survive in your own home. Then ask yourself if fighting the threat half way around the world is the better option, because if we leave the Middle East, they are only going to follow us knowing they have us on the run. It's not the easy choice, it's not a pleasant one, it's grim, ugly, inevitable reality, as long as they seek our destruction we must seek theirs.

Answer 3

Political situations are very complex. Saddam was evil and committed genocide and he shouldn't have been in power. The thing that irks me is for all the valid reasons to remove him from power were ignored and false ones with buzz words were used.

Personally, if Bush got on TV and said he was removing Saddam because he was starving his country, exploiting the poor through drugs, continuing his genocide before sanctions, and other evils against those he "leads"...well I don't think we would have the political split we have in the USA currently. We would also probably have more world support and assistance, oddly enough but even from Muslim countries since Saddam was Christian and oppressed many Muslims.

I support the troops completely, but the reasons they were sent their were poor at best....which makes no sense considering Saddam tried to commit genocide as often as he could.

As far as pride though? No, never for war. It means all other ways to end the situation failed. You take pride in avoiding war not creating it.

Answer 4

This is such a touchy topic to talk about, all I can offer is my opinion. It is a crying shame that every soldier that died and will die in this war is because of a lie. Bush is not a bad man, but a real man would swallow his pride and admit wrong doing. Bush is an American born whimp for the lack of a better word. Everyone else has to pay but him. How many times in the past was there a real opportunity to get Saddam, or even Osama. But they didn't, cause you know why. It would have been to easy. If it's easy, there is no money involved. Stupid economic powers. Truely have no value for life. Get the troops the hell out of there and get them back home with their families for God's sake. Enough is enough already dammit. Heart goes out to the men and women fighting the LIE.

Answer 5

No country should ever take pride in war. The only thing we can hope for is that the people if Iraq will be better off. That's why we do what we do. The history books will decide. All we can do is what we think is the correct choice at the time. There's no evil here, just people *trying* to do good -- trying to do the right thing. Sometimes, good intentions just don't work out.

Answer 6

No we went to war for the wrong reasons. Sure Saddam is a very bad man, but he is not the only one in the world. How about all the bad people in Africa that are killing women and children, why done we help them. I got it they have no oil. I support our troops, but we are going to end up like the Korea and Vietnam wars, no win situations. We sure have made a mess of things over there. Just think of all the money that is spent on the war what things could be done with it here in the US with people having trouble paying for medical help, housing, food, etc.

Answer 7

This topic has nothing to do with "false pride"
The situation in IRAQ MUST BE sorted such that the people of Iraq can be "saved" from their very hungry neighbors (=ENEMIES) who intend to cull the population as they install their puppet rule.
The US would be remiss to step back and allow the bloodbath as the people of Iraq have suffered greatly and deserve the chance to get their country transformed into a viable prosperous nation.
The US ALSO need to prevent the dissection of Iraq as the delusional fanatics in Syria and Iran intend to use the resources and Land of Iraq to fuel their desire to impose their belief/rule on the rest of the world...
To achieve this they must topple the west specifically the US...

Answer 8

Rather than focus our attention on pride, I believe we should throw that energy into support for our troops, praying for their safe return and hoping that such an instance is not thrown into effect again.

We cannot change what was done, we cannot change what was said or the alleged lies that have been told - but what we can do is pull together and pray that those who are still fighting and away from their U.S. homes make it back safely and alive.

Answer 9

For the sake of our Military troops we should stay 100% behind them. Cause they are fighting the battle in Iraq day in and day out.
For the sake of our hard nosed Politician's, I would answer no. Cause there was really no reason for them to go into other than President's Bushes and his father the former presdident's own business and revenge for Sadam.
I think we should have dealt better with diplomacy. Only this way we can win over tryanny's. Look at other places in the world. They did not had to march in and fight, nope they used different strategy's.

Answer 10

I wish that there were a good, simple answer to this.

Certainly, I think that our men and women in the military should be proud of their service. There have only been a small minority who have behaved badly...the vast majority have served with honor and dignity.

Unfortunately, we bombed the country under false pretenses, and have not managed to provide the basic elements of security, shelter, consistent electrical power, water supplies, etc. to the Iraqi people. I feel that we have an obligation to return things to a standard of living that is at least equal to the "pre-bombing" conditions. I'd rather see us build alliances with other countries, focus on developing Iraqi capabilities, and exit gracefully.

Although 3,000 American casualities is a high price to pay...it pales in comparison to the number of Iraqi's who have died in the conflict, and civil wars that are continuing. We owe it to them to admit what we've done wrong, seek diplomatic solutions, and to give a final large push to help assuage an already difficult situation.

I don't think that admitting that we screwed up weakens us to the Iraqi's...rather I think it humanizes us, and strengthens our ability to build effective alliances that will help the Iraqi people, while speeding up our ability to effectively exit.

By the way...in case you wonder my political leanings...I consider myself a moderate. I don't like the current Bush...but I did vote for his father.

Answer 11

We were lied to and got into a hopeless war that has killed many thousands of people. We need to get out as soon as possible. We cannot just leave because the country would collapse and the civil war would get worse. Also Iran and Syria would move in and make it another terrorist country. It is a terrible mess thanks to Bush. The best answer is to slowly withdraw our troops. We have lost enough good people for no reason.