Christians/Jews who seen abortion as murder?

Question

Doesn't Exodus 21 show that a foetus is not as important as a grown human? And therefore killing one would not be murder?

*Brief overview of Exodus 21: men are brawling and accidentally hit a pregnant woman. If the woman is injured (but not killed,) the command is to take 'an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth' etc, doing the men as much damage as they've done her, but if she miscarries (and the foetus IS killed) the men only have to pay a fine.*

I dsiagree, Midge, the word 'foetus' means foetus. It is not yet outside the womb, and if aborted very early on, or through the morning after pill, is just a bunch of cells. I don't see a human foetus as any more important than an animals with the same level of consciousness and ability to feel pain. They have not yet developed 'human' traits apart from their looks.

I do not agree with any comparison with the holocaust, either. I would never condone the killing of adult people for their beliefs. However, a foetus does not yet have an identity apart from its genes. It may be conscious, but it has no language and probably therefore no thought yet. It is no more important than an animal with the potential to be a person.
And we all have the potential to be a corpse.

In the commentaries I have read, the first instance is definitely miscarriage with resulting death of infant. The second instance however, can be interpreted as death of a FULLY FORMED infant, or of the mother. Thanks for clearing that up.

And, regarding the circumstances and society of the time - I'd say premature births are likely to die. I don't think there would ever be 'no harm' to the baby. So I still read it as harm to the mother.

Answer 1

But the base idea is still there that life has intrinsic value. Also, conside the passage in Hosea that speaks of abortion as a punishment for sin (Hosea 9:14) and the passage that shows God's disgust at the Ammorite practice of killing babies in the womb (Amos 1:13).

God makes it clear that life begins in the womb, that we are made in the image of God, and that human life is more valuable than animal life. Put all those together and you can see that God has a very negative view of abortion.

Answer 2

That is true that punishment then awas only to pay a fine, but Psalm 139 says: "My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, your eyes sawmy unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be." This does not directly answer whether life begins at conception or birth, but it does make clear that God's loving involvement in our lives starts long before birth.

Answer 3

Old laws ,and yet still they are guilty enough to be punished.A foetus is still a human,what if they said you should die because you are not contributing to society enough.

Answer 4

you misread. the versus exodus 21 22-23 read :if men strive, and hurt a women with child,so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the women's husband will lay upon him;and he shall pay as the judges determine. and if mischief follows then thou shalt give life for life.
what it says is if she gives birth and the baby lives then the husband can beat the crap out of him and the judges make him pay a fine, but if the child dies, then its life for life.

Answer 5

false
the death of a person is sometimes given a fine in other places

the death of a slave also gets a fine who is gored by an ox
30 pieces of silver is its a woman and 50 if its a man

Jesus allowed himself to be valued at the price of a female slave to purchase our redemption
Wow What a God !!

Answer 6

Here is the verse in full

Ex 21:22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

The serious injury is to the baby, since that is the topic.... if she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury.... if there is serious injury (ie the baby dies) eye for an eye tooth for tooth. Life for life...

Answer 7

Nice that you've excluded the atheist pro-lifer's from your argument there.

I'd like to see how you'd defend supporting infant-murder to someone who bases their morals on science and potential instead of a book.

Answer 8

Killing anyone is a question of morals and ethics, live is precious and therefore should be preserved as such. The old testament has been encapsulated in Jesus Christ. Love one another as I love you.

Answer 9

The Bible places no value on fetuses or infants less than one month old.

And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. -- Leviticus 27:6

Fetuses and infants less than one month old are not considered persons.

Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD. -- Numbers 3:15-16

God sometimes approves of killing fetuses.

And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. -- Numbers 31:15-17
(Some of the non-virgin women must have been pregnant. They would have been killed along with their unborn fetuses.)

Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. -- Hosea 9:14

Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. -- Hosea 9:16

Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up. -- Hosea 13:16

God sometimes kills newborn babies to punish their parents.

Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. -- 2 Samuel 12:14

God sometimes causes abortions by cursing unfaithful wives.

The priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell. And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. ...
And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. -- Numbers 5:21-21, 27-28

Answer 10

As a Jewish perspective: you're right, it isn't really murder, but it's similar. That's why it doesn't deserve the death penalty. But it's still killing a person-in-training.