According to Christian logic Jim Jones was a true prophet?

Question

When debating the viability of the Chrsitian religion with Christians themselves, i almost always hear the argument that people wouldn't allow themselves to be killed for lies or they wouldn't give up their lives for a false religion.

If you extrapolate this argument it becomes an argument for the divinity of Jim Jones. His hundreds of followers all willingly took cyanide laced flavor-aide to end their lives because they believed Jim Jones to be the second coming of Christ.

Either the argument can be made that Jim Jones was indeed Christ himself, or that this is a flawed argument and people will simply do just about anything out of faith.

There is no true evidence that any of the deciples actually saw this "proof." Proof is something very questionable. You can trust evidence, but proof always remains elusive. There is reason to believe that much of the Judeo-Chrisitan scriptures are fabricated.

Answer 1

When a religious group/civilization bears a prophet, it is usually during a time of high stress and a period when life as it is known is in grave danger.The prophet will come and provide a new way of life and invigorate the religion. No prophet has EVER arisen during a prosperous period of a religions' history.

The validity of a prophet is determined by the followers themselves. If his/her message is generally found favorable, then the prophet will accumulate followers, and his/her message is seen as legitimate. If the prophet is killed or banished, which is usually the case, the prophet is soon forgotten and accused of blashpemy or worse.

The bottom line is, a prophet is only as real as his/her followers wish him/her to be. If someone had thought Jesus or Muhammad was a whackjob, they would have been killed and frogotten as fast as any other prophet in history. Using the Quran or scripture to legitimize their positions is a circular argument. Their legitimacy cannot be proven; it all relies on faith.

Answer 2

Although I agree with many points you have made in the past, on this one I must disagree. The Jim Jones mass suicide event was cult born and has no bearing on his being divinity of any sort. Gullible people are born every day in this world just looking for a place to put their energies to work for something they can feel part of, a co-dependent situation if you will.
It's unfortunate that these situations arise but people are lead astray every day by charismatic individuals that are mentally unstable. World governments should suffice as proof of that.
You could also use your argument to say the same of the burning of Waco or even stretch it a bit and use it to cover the suicide bombers in the middle east. People have died for their beliefs for thousands of years and will continue to do so for many more. It doesn't matter if the belief is reality as long as it is the truth for them.
So as your end statement says 'people will simply do just about anything out of faith', rings true after all. (And somehow I agree once again!)

Answer 3

Your argument is based on a false premise: that Jim Jones' followers equate with the apostles and disciples who actually saw PROOF that Jesus is who He said He is. This is the reason why they didn't mind sacrificing their own lives to spread the Gospel.

Had Jim Jones' followers seen such objective proof, your argument that he was divine would be correct.

Alas, your argument fails for the lack of a solid basis.

EDIT: You say there's no proof the disciples saw Jesus Christ resurrected from the dead? Well guess what, you're wrong. Simon Greenleaf was a highly respected Jewish attorney and co-founder of Harvard Law School. While teaching as a professor of law at Harvard, he literally wrote the book on evidenciary rules regarding admissable and inadmissable witness testimony during trials. Using his rules of admissability, he set out to DISPROVE that the resurrection of Jesus Christ actually occured. At the end of his study, he wrote a paper called "Testimony of the Evangelists," that admitted the evidence for the resurrection is so strong, that it's the most accurately documented event in all of history. Dr. Greenleaf accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior and became a Messianic Jew. Here's a link to his paper:

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/greenleaf.html

What do you have to say now, smarty pants? ; )

Answer 4

Just because a few whack-jobs drank some crap because they thought this obviously false prophet was the second coming of Christ doesn't mean that all Christians believe that. Do you think that if this Jim Jones person was Christ himself, there would be a new world by now and all believers would be up in heaven?

Answer 5

ChooseRealityRETURNS,
The problem with such congregations is that they do not know the Bible well enough. If anyone told me the things that Jim Jones said about himself, that "If you look at me as a god then I'll be your God," I wouldn't waste any time going out the door.

Jim Jones was a sick man, I think that at least many people would agree. Jim Jones was no more guided by God to do what he did, any more than Adolf Hitler was guided by God to do what he did.

I think that we can dispense with all reference, in all logical mature thinking, that Jim Jones was anything close to divine!

Answer 6

This argument that "nobody would die for a false religion" is obviously weak even without the example of suicide cults. But just to drive a nail into the coffin of such fallacy you might want to add the following stats:
Peoples temple cult mass suicide, Guyana: 914 deaths.
Ten Commandments cult mass suicide, Uganda: Up to 1000 deaths.
Solar Temple cult mass suicide suicide, France: 74 deaths
Heavens Gate cult mass suicide, San Diego, California: 39 deaths.

Answer 7

Jim Jones's beliefs were not Bible based. He claimed to be the Messiah. In the Bible (Revelations) it says not to be fooled by false phrophets or people claiming to be the Messiah. There is one any one Jesus Christ and He gives a description of how He will return to earth in the same chapter mentioned above.

Answer 8

Not following your logic. Jim Jones was the leader of a cult, not Christianity. Christians have read the book and know how to tell the difference because our leader, Jesus, taught us.

Answer 9

There is no common logic here....only truth now.....Jim Jones was not a prophet.
And it's sad that all those people that are now dead cannot see this. There is no either/or here.....only an "AND "......and Jim Jones was not Christ and all those people died out of blind stupid trust.

Answer 10

They didnt know it was a lie, they believed it. On the other hand if those who professed to have seen Jesus risen really DIDNT see Him, they KNEW it was a lie and therefore would likely not allow themselves to be tortured to death for it. Knowing something is a lie and allowing others to torture you to death over it is highly unlikely.