I asked a Breed Standard Question Yesterday. Does anyone Know for sure?

Question

Has anyone here ever judged dogs to the "Standard" ?
I know the standard but, I have a question on judging. Yesterday I asked if anyone knew if my dogs two faults were going to inhibit his ability to win in the ring. I am new to showing and not 100% sure about the scoring process. He is a Saint Bernard with light eyes and a 1/2 inch area on the lip that is white. I havent been able to find info on line that answers this question. Can someone offer the answer or a good web site ? I was on hold with the AKC for 35 mins. I gave up...How do judges score a fault and is it only traits that will pass with breeding (like light eyes) that are considered major flaws?

Answer 1

I have done some judging, although never Saints. Regardless, many handlers/breeders know more than the judges, LOL!

The standard does not say either light eyes nor lack of full pigmentation is a *disqualifying* fault. No dog is perfect and they all have some faults, the question is will the faults interfere with the dogs ability to do the job it was bred to do. It is important to look at the whole picture and not just focus on the faults. Light eyes/pigmentation in an otherwise great dog is not a big deal and some judges will overlook it.

Is the missing pigment on the non show side where the judge may not even see it? The eyes are a little harder as you cannot hide them, but I would find INDOOR shows where the lighting isn't real bright. I have a dilute ***** I finished and her eyes are light, she just took a bit longer than her dark eyed, flashier littermate. Judges have different priorities and you can not place one day and then take a major the next.

The dilute ***** is currently away being bred, I can't wait!!! Mmmm.....puppies!!!

I would certainly not let these two faults keep you from the ring. You should get to know some breeders who can give you breed specific advice. Join a couple Saint lists/groups.

Feel free to email me if you have any other questions about showing/training.

"How do judges score a fault and is it only traits that will pass with breeding (like light eyes) that are considered major flaws?"

Some breeds do have a score giving a certain percentage to different qualities, but your standard isn't one of them. All faults can be passed on to offspring and judging breeding stock is (supposed to) be the purpose of all dog shows.

Memorize your standard. Learn to read between the lines and think about how things relate to the ability to do the job it was bred for.

Answer 2

Every judge is different. They don't normally use a scoring system per se. Judges have their different priorities, depending on their experience, what breeds they have bred, what problems they had in their lines etc. However, most judges are looking for an overall sound, good-moving animal that looks like it's breed. As I said in an earlier post, most judges are not really up on the fine details of proper breed type (hard to know that many breeds completely), and really, neither of these faults would be considered major in most breeds because they do not affect the dog's ability to do the job it was intended for.

You will get some judges that will completely ignore the light eyes or white on the lip, others will go "Ugh!, light eyes, I hate incorrect eye color, I'm not gonna put that one up." Most will simply take it into consideration, but as I said if your dog is quality otherwise these are fairly minor points.

Most Saints I've seen in the ring have far more important problems that eye color or lip pigment.

Answer 3

Right in your standard it discusses eye color:

"Eyes...are of medium size, dark brown, with intelligent, friendly expression, set moderately deep...eyes that are too light, are objectionable."

Taken from http://www.saintbernardclub.org/breed_standard.htm

So, yes, it sounds like light eyes will be a problem -- although, if your dog has lots of other good structural qualities, some judges will overlook the light eyes. But probably not many of them. Judges place more emphasis on traits that the Standard specifically discusses -- if the Standard for a breed specifically discusses eye color, then most judges will pay more attention to it in that breed.

Not sure about the color on the lip -- I see no discussion of that in the Standard, which makes me think it's probably open to judge's preference; how it affects the outline of the dog's head, etc.

Remember that a GOOD judge of Working Breeds will always value structure and movement over color. Color, while an aspect of breed type, does not help the Working dog perform its original function. Original function is paramount in any Working Breed.

Your best bet is to contact someone in your area who shows Saints and ask them to evaluate your dog. Here is a list of people who may be able to help you:

http://www.saintbernardclub.org/advisors.htm

Good luck!

Answer 4

I HATE light eyes!!!!
*HATE* em!!
The animal would have to be REALLY outstanding for me to one up over a just about ANY other competiton.
I won't KEEP a light eye,let alone SHOW it!!! That's PET-STUFF!! A CULL! Altered & placed inna PET home.

GOOD judges do ***NOT*** "fault judge"...other than obvious disqualifications. Breed TYPE *MUST* come first. A blankety MONGREL can be "sound/balanced/whatever". Can you INSTANTLY tell it's a "whatever" from across the room?
Then you go into the fine details that a QUALITY speciman must possess.

PS: had to laugh....only ***2*** faults??? WOW!!! LOL