Trinity question?

Question

What is the scriptural basis for the belief that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are a single entity of one substance?

and...

What is the scriptural basis for the belief that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are three distinct beings of one Godhead?

I would like to hear from both sides.

Answer 1

What is the origin of the Trinity doctrine?

The New Encyclopædia Britannica says: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.”—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

In The Encyclopedia Americana we read: “Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.”—(1956), Vol. XXVII, p. 294L.

According to the Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel, “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”—(Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.

John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says: “The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are G[ree]k philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians.”—(New York, 1965), p. 899.

Does the Bible agree with those who teach that the Father and the Son are not separate and distinct individuals?

Matt. 26:39, RS: “Going a little farther he [Jesus Christ] fell on his face and prayed, ‘My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt.’” (If the Father and the Son were not distinct individuals, such a prayer would have been meaningless. Jesus would have been praying to himself, and his will would of necessity have been the Father’s will.)

John 8:17, 18, RS: “[Jesus answered the Jewish Pharisees:] In your law it is written that the testimony of two men is true; I bear witness to myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness to me.” (So, Jesus definitely spoke of himself as being an individual separate and distinct from the Father.)

Does the Bible teach that none of those who are said to be included in the Trinity is greater or less than another, that all are equal, that all are almighty?

Mark 13:32, RS: “Of that day or that hour no ones knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Of course, that would not be the case if Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were coequal, comprising one Godhead. And if, as some suggest, the Son was limited by his human nature from knowing, the question remains, Why did the Holy Spirit not know?)

Matt. 20:20-23, RS: “The mother of the sons of Zebedee . . . said to him [Jesus], ‘Command that these two sons of mine may sit, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your kingdom.’ But Jesus answered, . . . ‘You will drink my cup, but to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.’” (How strange, if, as claimed, Jesus is God! Was Jesus here merely answering according to his “human nature”? If, as Trinitarians say, Jesus was truly “God-man”—both God and man, not one or the other—would it truly be consistent to resort to such an explanation? Does not Matthew 20:23 rather show that the Son is not equal to the Father, that the Father has reserved some prerogatives for himself?)

Matt. 12:31, 32, RS: “Every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” (If the Holy Spirit were a person and were God, this text would flatly contradict the Trinity doctrine, because it would mean that in some way the Holy Spirit was greater than the Son. Instead, what Jesus said shows that the Father, to whom the “Spirit” belonged, is greater than Jesus, the Son of man.)

John 14:28, RS: “[Jesus said:] If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.”

1 Cor. 11:3, RS: “I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.” (Clearly, then, Christ is not God, and God is of superior rank to Christ. It should be noted that this was written about 55 C.E., some 22 years after Jesus returned to heaven. So the truth here stated applies to the relationship between God and Christ in heaven.)

1 Cor. 15:27, 28 RS: “‘God has put all things in subjection under his [Jesus’] feet.’ But when it says, ‘All things are put in subjection under him,’ it is plain that he is excepted who put all things under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things under him, that God may be everything to every one.”

Does the Bible teach that each of those said to be part of the Trinity is God?

Jesus said in prayer: “Father, . . . this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:1-3, RS; italics added.) (Most translations here use the expression “the only true God” with reference to the Father. NE reads “who alone art truly God.” He cannot be “the only true God,” the one “who alone [is] truly God,” if there are two others who are God to the same degree as he is, can he? Any others referred to as “gods” must be either false or merely a reflection of the true God.)

1 Cor. 8:5, 6, RS: “Although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many ‘gods’ and many ‘lords’—yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.” (This presents the Father as the “one God” of Christians and as being in a class distinct from Jesus Christ.)

1 Pet. 1:3, RS: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!” (Repeatedly, even following Jesus’ ascension to heaven, the Scriptures refer to the Father as “the God” of Jesus Christ. At John 20:17, following Jesus’ resurrection, he himself spoke of the Father as “my God.” Later, when in heaven, as recorded at Revelation 3:12, he again used the same expression. But never in the Bible is the Father reported to refer to the Son as “my God,” nor does either the Father or the Son refer to the holy spirit as “my God.”)

Answer 2

One Person-1 John 5:7
It can be plainly seen, if you will read the 26th. chapter of Matthew, that the three of the Trinity are separate; for Jesus prayed to the Father all through this chapter. Also, if you will read the 1st. and the 2nd. chapters of the Book of Acts, you will see that Jesus promised his disciples that the Holy Spirit would come upon them, after He returned to Heaven. And in the 2nd. chapter you will see the marvelous results when the Holy Spirit actually did come down upon all the people at Jerusalem.

Answer 3

seems to me that the trinity is not specifically described in the bible but that it is strongly inferred when the bible comments about the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are the same person, are one. It's like a person is made up of a body, mind and soul, 3 distinct parts...so it's like the trinity but the word trinity is only God related.

Belief is on faith and the word. And a lot of things were passed down as in traditions for the faithful to believe.

Answer 4

The Bible talks about them all individually, but also all as God. Why is that so hard to understand? To understand the actual theology behind it may be far to difficult for the human mind to comprehend, but the fact that the Bible teaches both is clear enough for a child to understand.
When the Bible says the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, what do you think it means??

Answer 5

You better read the New Testament, if you want a better comprehension of the situation. The simplest explanation I can give you is your hand, five fingers in a palm called your hand. Also, you are composed of body, mind and spirit. In a way you are a form of trinity as well, since you have been created in the likeness of God.

Answer 6

The Trinity is a lie. "It did no longer ensue till the 4th century A.D. between the Apostolic Fathers, there have been no longer something even remotely drawing near this way of mentality or attitude."--- (1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.the recent Catholic Encyclopedia. Christianity is derived from Judaism & Judaism is precisely Unitarian believing that God is one man or woman. Fourth century Trinitarianism did no longer mirror wisely early Christian coaching with reference to the character of God; it became into, on the choice, a deviation from this coaching."--(1956), Vol. XXVII, p. 294L. The Encyclopedia Americana. a million Cor 8:5,6 RS: "even nonetheless there are might nicely be so-observed as gods in heaven or on earth--as certainly there are a number of 'gods' and a brilliant sort of 'lords'--yet for us there is one God, the father, from whom are all issues and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, via whom are all issues and via whom we exist." This provides the father with the aid of fact the "one God" of Christians and as being in a classification diverse from Jesus Christ. in no way contained in the Bible is the father suggested to communicate over with the Son as "my God," nor does the father communicate over with the holy spirit as "my God." each and every Scripture that Trinitarians use as 'evidence' of the Trinity extremely point out 'basically 2 persons, no longer 3'; so whether the Trinitarian clarification of the texts have been maximum appropriate, those does not practice that the Bible teaches the Trinity. No the place contained in the holy Scriptures are we given a acceptance for the holy spirit. God---YHWH---Jah---Jehovah. Jesus Christ the Son of God; the only begotten-god. we are given names for the two certainly one of them. no longer the holy spirit. JW's, Muslims, Hebrews & Unitarians all worship One God. no longer the pagan, Trinity concept. Any1 recognize of any others? (u won't be able to incorporate Mormons)

Answer 7

It wasn't in the OT, and no one is really sure in which version of the NT the belief of the Trinity first appeared.

Answer 8

Genesis LET US GO DOWN AND CREATE MAN IN OUR IMAGE.

Jesus said I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE

The above are just 2, but the following is more

http://www.carm.org/doctrine/trinity.htm

Answer 9

1 John 5:7-8

it says it all, dont need lengthy words.

Answer 10

i think that is a metaphor..for body, soul...and conscience?