The literal translations 'they were wrestled' or 'they were struggled' don't really fit the context. Any suggestions? Here is the context for you:
"luctantur pectusque leve in contraria tendunt hac amor, hac odium;"
Some English translations have turned 'luctantur' round and translated it as 'I struggle' but I don't see how they have done this; any help would be greatly appreciated.
2006-11-20 08:07:12 · 6 answers · asked by cfa 1 in Society & Culture ➔ Languages
Thank you everyone! If I could find my dictionary then I would have seen the infinitive when I looked the word up and seen that it's deponent - silly me lol
2006-11-20 09:14:24 · update #1
"luctari" means to wrestle or to struggle.
So the Latin verb (luctari) is in the passive voice. No active voice exists in Latin for this verb. Yet it translates into English verbs in active voice (to wrestle, to struggle).
Hence, "luctantur" means "they wrestle" or "they struggle", not "they were wrestled" or "they were struggled".
There is no "luctant" in Latin, only "luctantur". Some verbs in Latin are just like that. They use only the passive form but have active meaning. So to translate them you just use active voice as if it didn't worry you one bit why the Ancient Romans chose to use these verbs in this way. ;)
2006-11-20 08:27:54 · answer #1 · answered by s 4 · 1⤊ 0⤋
The verb "luctor" is what's called a deponent verb; which is to say that its forms are passive, but its meanings are active. I don't know of anything offhand that you could compare this to in English. So, although "luctantur" is a passive form, its meaning is "they fight" or "they struggle."
The translation "I struggle" probably came from someone who had only taken first year Latin.
The text comes from Ovid's Elegy 11b. It's a gem! Here's a fuller translation (modified from one on the Web:
"Farewell. No, I don't want any more kisses; and it's no good talking like that any more; it's a waste of time; your words don't move me. Yet, love on one side, and hate on the other, both struggle; and our hearts draw weakly in opposite directions. Love, I think, is winning the day. I will hate, if I am able; if not, I will love, but not willingly. The ox, too, loves not the yoke. He hates it; but still he bears it. Even as I fly your perfidy, your beauty draws me back. I hate the depravity of your soul; I love your body. Thus I can live neither with you nor without you, and I know not what I want myself I would that you were less fair or less wicked. Such loveliness goes ill with such evil ways. Your conduct bids me hate; your beauty bids me love. Hapless indeed am I; her charms outweigh the evil deeds of their possessor."
It reminds me of a two-line poem by Catullus:
"I love (her) and I hate (her). You ask me how that can be? I have no idea, but I know it's happening, and it's a crucifixion!"
2006-11-20 09:09:17 · answer #2 · answered by Frank C 1 · 0⤊ 1⤋
"luctari" is a so-called "deponens" a remnant of an older class of verbs, of a different "aspect" , once common in the Indo-European languages.
There are quite a few in Latin, like "loquari" to speak, and they have an active meaning in spite of their looking like a passive.
So your translation is "they wrestle/struggle"
2006-11-20 08:42:50 · answer #3 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
Hi!
I must warn you ahead of time that I cannot really help you because although I did study Latin in
high school ....am I not lucky, and only certain people really understand that ... my skills do not cover this ....
Also, it is 4:15 and I have just spent an hour
answering an interesting letter on this site, and
I have no tea, and my head is dizzy... but, I will tell you what I think it means.... and you will
know what "skid thinking" means: (Nos morituri
te salutamus!) It means, "I hate you because
you, you rat, have entrapped my heart with your
blue eyes, and your golden curls! Go away! What unknown force has trapped me so? Oh, wretched fate that this should be so! Merciful
Heavens, have pity on me, or I will die! Of what use is it to fight you so (pectusque) when I have tried every subterfuge and lofted it against you?
Ooooooooooooo!"
NOW do you know what Jane said to Tarzan when she say the elephants coming? I sure hope so, because I tried really hard.
For the record, "Nos morituri te salutamus" means, "We who are about to die salute you."
Just in case there might be some doubt.
Forgive me. I must try to russle up some tea!
Cheers! Happy Thanksgiving! et al....
2006-11-20 08:27:27 · answer #4 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 3⤋
I struggle for on one side love, on one side hatred; I guess this all comes down to your choice of side; do you choose to fight for love or hate?
2006-11-20 08:46:39 · answer #5 · answered by tommynocker001 4 · 0⤊ 1⤋
it means 'to struggle'
2006-11-20 08:10:54 · answer #6 · answered by LazyDaisy 3 · 0⤊ 0⤋