Christians - how can you support a religion with these laws and guidelines for living?

Question

Please actually read the following scriptures before you answer. I can not figure out how Christians can be OK with these sorts of things.

The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9).

And don't go telling me that we disregard the OT!
"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17)


Jesus approves of slavery, he even approves of beating slaves even when they did not know they did anything wrong!
"The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48)

I see thumbs down and 1 remark that does not answer my question! I wonder...will I get a real answer? I doubt it. I never could get an answer in church, so I stopped going. It is a rare christian who will discuss these bible scriptures!

My point is fair and valid. Let's see some real responses instead of "thumbs down" and insults, ok?

To those who think God intended for slavery to expire after a length of time- read this: Exodus 20:7 "7 "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do." and read the rest of the chapter to see it in context. FEMALE slaves do not get set free.

Wow, one christian just told me to "get onto something more constructive." I am discussing the things that turned me away from the church and the christian message is to "get onto something more constructive". Gee, thanks for showing you care...

Someone said that certain punishments including killing pregnant women were due Babylonians because of their behavior...since when is a child responsible for the behavior of its parents? I guess this person thinks we should kill the children of criminals and/or sinners.

Yeah I feel the love.

As one response stated "You have taken these quotes out of context to suit your question...you will not accept answers here either, your search is for truth about laws and practices that no longer apply to Christians"...WHAT PART OF THE BIBLE DOES NOT APPLY TO CHRISTIANS??? lol "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17)

One response says" You are not reading in context, Ex 21 does not sell as a sex slave, how can you be so ignorant, he is selling his daughter as a wife. If he decides he doesn't want her as a wife she goes free". What about HER wants? What if she does not want to marry him? Read the rest...he has to lie with her as his wife(regardless of whether or not she wants to)...and if he becomes displeased with her, she can go free with NOTHING. Not one word about her wants or her pleasure!

Answer 1

First point. You became a member today, but ask and reply like a seasoned Y!A person who has been in the RS section for awhile. Thus you are someone who just created an added profile. So you keep asking the same question, but as different people? Just curious.

To answer your question. I am American. I'm against slavery. However, the USA originally allowed slavery, in contradiction to its goals of freedom and liberty. So am I supposed to believe in slavery, just because the USA once allowed it?

Jesus, who said all the bible is true, stopped the mob from stoning an adultress. Even though, in the bible is said to stone adulterers. So, this is interesting. He says all the bible is true, and yet he will not allow the law to be fulfilled.

So the bible may be true in terms of the facts and history it presents. But the example of Jesus clearly shows it is not prescriptive. You are running into obvious contradictions, because your perspective and assumptions are in error.

Hopes this helps in some way.

Answer 2

First off, you get a thumbs up from me. There's nothing wrong with asking questions. That's what this place is for, right? My Christian beliefs are grounded in facts, truth, and knowledge. I did a lot of asking, and soul searching before coming to Christ. You should never be asked to accept something to be true without first understanding why. The guy who told you to talk to a preacher... not a bad idea. This is a bit of a lengthy question, and I'm definitely not as knowledgable as a religious authority would be, but I'll give it my best shot:

Exodus 21:1-11. The whole sex-slave thing isn't something God supports. However, it would seem that this was something customary of the time. But, if you flip forward to Jeremiah (I think it's chapter 34) you'll find that ultimately it's God's desire for all his people to be free, both men and women. Okay, I just dbl checked and it's Jeremiah 34:8-11. (read it!) The bible, in addition to being God's word, is also a historical account of His people. And as people, we will always make mistakes.. it's inevitable. A real comfort to me is knowing that God is steady and unchanging, and never contradictory. A polar opposite to human nature.

Judges 11:29-40. Admittedly, I don't know much about this passage. What insight I can gain from it though, is the importance of honouring a vow with God... and maybe the stupidity of it in the first place. Why make a bargain with God? Chances are, we're not going to be able to hold up our end of the bargain. The man who had to give up his daughter tore his clothes (a sign of mourning).

Isaiah 13:16. This passage, and actually most of the book of Isaiah is a prophesy... .not something that Isaiah, or God for that matter, is promoting or approving of. In fact, Isaiah is adamently speaking out against such behaviour. Prophets were big supporters of the use of fear tactics as an attempt to sway their people into repentance. Basically what he's saying here is that, "if you don't turn to God... this is going to happen." A bit doom and gloom, but that seems to be the nature of most of the biblical prophets.

Hosea 13:16. Again... a prophet. He's giving people a taste of what's to come if they don't repent and change their ways. Hosea lived during a particularly tragic time, and most of his speeches are directed towards the people of Isreal.

Psalms 137:9. First off, I can say with 100% certainty that God does not support the practice of smashing babies of rocks. It goes completely against his nature. I dont believe that the author of this psalm does either. It has quite the depressing undertone... like someone who's been trapped in a foreign land for too long. During this time period (and that of Isaiah also, I believe) invading armies would often destroy babies in the attempt to prevent the growth of any future warriors that would retaliate. People living in Babylon and Assyria at this time would have recognized imagery like this, and known what Hosea was talking about.

Whew, that was long. I hope I covered them all. I tried not to go into too much detail... I could go on forever. I tried to sum up the most convincing arguements. Again, kudos on the question. Keep asking.. it's the only way you're going to find answers.

God bless.

Answer 3

The problem is that we see ourselves as little gods and when what God says disagrees with what we think is wrong we say God is wrong and our society is right. You need to get the shoe on the right foot and realize that we are wrong and God is on the throne. We evaluate slavery through the glasses of the American slavery issue and can't see a totally different culture that was not abusive. Savery was the means to deal with all kinds of social problems including bankruptcy, prisoners of war, hunger, unemployment, breech of contract, crime, and a number of other ones that we in our society have no answer for. It worked well and God set up rules for it. But don't pull out an exreme situation and make it the rule for all slavery. You are not reading in context, Ex 21 does not sell as a sex slave, how can you be so ignorant, he is selling his daughter as a wife. If he decides he doesn't want her as a wife she goes free. There is no child abuse in the story of Jepthahs daughter. Why do you write such thing, just to belittle the Bible. Be honest.
In Isaiah 13 it is a prophesy of what will come not a comand of God's to do it. The same with Hosea and Psalms. If you don't believe the Bible and don't now what it is even talking about, then don't misquote it, put your own misinterpretation on it, and then try to use your misquotes and misinterpretation to refute it.

Answer 4

As for the first set of Bible verses; they are all old testament. They came a long time before christianity did and Jesus came to fulfill those very laws. They were not written according to the context of the Ten Commandments but were written by men. The laws that Luke and other New Testament men were talking about were the Ten Commandments themselves. As for Jesus approving of slavery; there is no proof of that anywhere in the Bible that I can find. The use of a servant in that particular verse of Luke was refering to a person in a position of responsibility not following through with that responsibility. Such as a father, mother, teacher, doctor, pastor, priest...etc. Whenever these people take on a particular position they are as much a servant as anyone bought or sold into slavery. It amazes me how people take the word of God and subvert it to their own purposes. But, even the demons in hell can quote God's word and they trembled in the presence of His Son. Your questions are sound, but try not to take it so personally and not be so obtuse with the questions. Honest questioning can only lead to honest debate. Bashing others only can lead to more misunderstanding.

Answer 5

Maybe the Bible needs to be updated - if parts in it only matter to the time it was written, then perhaps those parts can be deleted now?

But that would pretty much be impossible of course - the Bible is the either the word of God, or it isn't. It's either all true, or it's not.

I heard if you separate all the good stuff in the Bible, it would fill up a nice little pamphlet!

Wait here's a thought! Maybe slavery will come back in style, and/or the stoning of men, women and children to death for heresy will be accepted once again. Then the Bible will be fresh and relevant again!

Answer 6

Following the Ten Commandments is perfectly fine and is still being observed. Jesus abolished the food laws, abolished most Jewish Celebration and made new marriage laws. 1 Timothy 4:3-5 ESV Who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer. ark 7:15-20 ESV There is nothing outside a person that by going into him can defile him, but the things that come out of a person are what defile him.” And when he had entered the house and left the people, his disciples asked him about the parable. And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” (Thus he declared all foods clean). There are many more New Testament verses that abolish many Jewish Laws. Food Laws (no pork etc), Marriage Laws (multiple wives etc), Jewish Celebrations (Barmitsvah etc) and others should not be observed. Circumcision is optional but has no spiritual value anymore The only Jewish Celebration that is okay is the Passover.

Answer 7

Let me start off by saying that I am not condeming you or any of the sort because I have read these passages (although in the KJV with Greek and Hebrew helps). Yes you have taken them out of context. I will use your Exodus as an example. Exodus is not speaking of sex slaves because in the Hebrew the words used speak of being given as a marriage partner or just a maidservant whichever applied to cases that came up. As far as the passage from Luke, it is correct in saying that the law is not invalid or pipto or peto (In the Greek) which means to fall. The Law is what we as humans are supposed to strive to live by. But it is unattainable because we would have to be perfect. That is why Jesus came. He came to set us free from the Law but yet it is something that we are still supposed to try and live by. Hope that makes sense lol. God bless.

Answer 8

First off, you make the mistake of trying to force old covenant law on new covenant believers. We are no longer under the law, but grace. A good rule of thumb is if a law or precept is repeated in the New Testament, it should be followed by Believers.
Second, the Bible stated what was. It is sometimes descriptive, not prescriptive. Slavery in ancient times was different than what we know now. In the early Israelite community, slaves were mostly men and women from conquered nations. What was the choice, let them go free to come back and fight again, kill them, or make them slaves. There were no prisons or jails for a wandering culture. Also, bond servants were called slaves as well. These were individuals who were indebted to someone and instead of paying the debt with money, they paid with a certain time of voluntary service.
Now, as the verses you sighted,

Isa 13:16 -
Their children also shall be dashed to pieces - This is a description of the horrors of the capture of Babylon; and there can be none more frightful and appalling than that which is here presented. That this is done in barbarous nations in the time of war, there can be no doubt. Nothing was more common among American savages, than to dash out the brains of infants against a rock or a tree, and it was often done before the eyes of the afflicted and heartbroken parents. That these horrors were not unknown in Oriental nations of antiquity, is evident. Thus, the Paslmist implies that it would be done in Babylon, in exact accordance with this prediction of Isaiah; Psa_137:8-9 :

Exodus 21:1 - 11 says nothing about sex slaves. It is prescribing laws about dealing with bond servants, both men and women.

Judges 11 - Again, this is descriptive. It is concerning an event that occurred. The Bible does not endorse it nor teach it as proper conduct.

Hos 13:16 -
Samaria shall become desolate - Or “shall bear her iniquity.” Her iniquity should now find her out, and rest upon her. Of this, “desolation” was, in God’s judgments, the consequence. Samaria, “the nursery of idolatry and rebellion against God,” the chief in pride should be chief in punishment. “For she hath rebelled against her God.” It aggravated her sin, that He “against” whom “she rebelled,” was “her” own “God.” He who had chosen her to be His, and made Himself her God; who had showed Himself “her” God in the abundance of His loving-kindness, from the deliverance out of Egypt to that day. This her desolation, it is again said, should be Complete. Hope remains, if the people of a generation are cut off; yet not only should these fall by the sword; those already born were to be dashed in pieces; those as yet unborn were to be sought out for destruction, even in their mother’s womb. Such atrocities were common then. Elisha foretold to Hazael that he would perpetrate both cruelties 2Ki_8:12, Shalmaneser clashed the young children in pieces 2Ki_10:14, as did the conqueror of NoAmmon Nah_3:10, and the Babylonians Psa_137:9 afterward. The children of Ammon ripped up the women with child in Gilead Amo_1:13, and the usurper Menahem in Tiphsah and its coasts 2Ki_15:16. Isaiah prophesies that Babylon should undergo, in its turn, the same as to its children Isa_13:16, and the Psalmist pronounces God’s blessing on its destroyer who should so requite him Psa_137:9.

The passage from Luke was a parable, a story to make a point using the cultural context and language His audience would understand. He no where advocates slavery or the mistreatment of anyone by another human.

Answer 9

yes i agree that the law is still in effect. but you are mistaken.
Man is the reason for a lot of these verses you bring up.
Sex Slave or wife thing what ever you said
Mt 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Mt 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Mt 19:7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
Mt 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

People were the reason for this law. The hardness of their hearts. It wasn't supposed to be.

In Jugdes the man made a vow to God and had to honour it God didn't command it. Man rushing in to things.

Isaiah, Psalms, and Hosea are prophceying about what men are doing.

When David numbered Isreal when he was not supposed to God gave him a choice between three punishments. God's wrath, Famine, or Enemies taking conquering them. He choose God's wrath because of his great mercy. Men are smashing babies not God.

Jesus is giving a parable here not talking a bout slavery. It is talking about people that know the true truth and don't follow it. They need to holdfast to what is good.

None of these things are commandments of God's. If they were I would Do them because I believe that my God is great and knows more than I ever will.
God's dumbest though is greater than our highest.

Answer 10

i think there is some confusion on your part, when you read the bible you must take into consideration the time in which it was written and the party to whom it is written. those are instructions for people who are in that situation. we have freedom through Christ, and we cannot save ourselves, that is why we need a savior to act on our behalf. He came so that we might have life and have it abundantly! that quote that you provided in Luke is a great scripture because the more truth you know, the more you are going to be held accountable for. that only makes sense!! maybe you should pray and ask the Lord to give you some illumination on the scripture and help you to understand instead of using the limited knowledge you have to try to discredit that which can not be discredited.