Why do some Martial Artists think real fighting is at all like Sparring?

Question

I spent most of my childhood learning Jujitsu, later studied some Kenpo , and finally found a Hung-Gar school which was the first school where we actually trained on concrete floors and wore street clothes. So I do see the value of Martial Arts in as far as health, and conditioning. I have respect for Martial Arts and enjoy it in films as well.

My question is directed at people who actually think real fights work that way. I have been in a lot of bar fights and other violent situations. People fight dirty, it's nothing like sparring and movies.

Don't get me wrong, some of what I learned all those years has helped. However, I'd like to know if any of you can tell me about REAL fights where you used martial arts, because to me it seems aside from grppling pretty limited after that first move

I know a lot of you are going to make things up. I look forward to laughing at the lies but I appreciate those of you who can be honest.

*laughs* pretty much what I expected... it is unfortunate that today's so called Martial Arts only seems to teach Sport and Ego. Many of you are avoiding the question.

Hung-Gar Kung-Fu is the only Martial Art I ever studied that trained realistically. It wasn't flighty, we had to condition our bodies, use full contact, practice our throws on concrete, and utilize low, powerful stances that were often quite painful.

I just can't seem to find any Martial Arts Schools like that anymore. As a Soldier I've moved an awful lot over the past few years, so its not just where I live.

Don't go living in a fantasy world. Does anyone have any good experiences in real life combat? Honestly... that's kind of what I was hoping to get you guys wriled up to tell me about, not to see your over-inflated ego's flare.

*laughs*

I can't stop reading Hood_12's response, look guys... that is what todays Martial Arts are creating, a generation that has no idea what a fight even is. *ROFL*

Answer 1

I like all these jack asses like ninedemonsgod who point to UFC as a good rule of thumb as to what to expect in a real fight. My short retort to his dumb answer would be to ask would you want to go to the ground if facing multiple attackers? Maybe he likes to roll around on the floor with a bunch of guys, but I wouldn't.

I would just suggest you use what you learn, what you remember, and what comes as second nature. Beyond that, adapt to your environment and use whatever you can, be it beer bottle, lead pipe, knife, or even gun if your life depends on it. You'll probably be more prepared based on the way you train, not just dependent on the style in which you train.

Other than that, some people spar and train just for sport, and hopefully they don't get confused as to what is real and what doesn't work. Billy Blanks has great success with Tae Bo, but I wouldn't put money on 38-year old Susie Homemaker who does Tae Bo every morning after dropping her kids off at school when facing a drunk biker.

Answer 2

In all honesty most martial artists have never been in a real fight . Real fights are fast and dirty , half the time end up on the ground , and there is never a referee to stop the fight . Martial arts training has changed over the years and has become a sport or is for "self defense only". Sadly this is because of many insurance companies wanting higher premiums for M/A schools where there is a chance of getting injured . Between that and the advent of soft contact point sparring ... well you've seen the results .
I am sorry you were so disappointed with kenpo ,its what I used to teach . Unfortunately the name kenpo or kempo , however is used in many different styles or sub styles as it is . Not to mention that some instructors just aren't any good at teaching . Some people who teach actually are more concerned with being your friend , or worse yet just getting your money . I have seen this happen in many M/A styles though not just kenpo .
Also on a side note , just because someone knows M/A does not mean they are invincable . There will always be someone out there who is better at fighting .
Hope you can appreciate this answer as much as I appreciated you asking that question .

Answer 3

because it can be and it can not be.

It all depends on how you train. the street isn't some magical place where the laws of physics are suspended.

The problem I think you are hinting at is not that a technique won't work, it is that people who train in martial arts often forget that they are not in an enclosed area where the only thing they need to worry about is your opponent.

In a bar, there are other obsticles. On the street there are too.

There is also the reality that someone is carrying a weapon (that changes this whole discussion). Real fights do work according to the same principles but the problem is that in "low intensity" and controlled sparring for a particular rule set, people forget that you won't get that technique off as flawlessly against a fully resisting opponent (if you haven't been training as such) and real fights are CHAOTIC not organized. And your surroundings are a factor not to mention you could be drunk. Still having skill and training it is better than not, and I would rather have it and also look to surroundings. I think weapons training where you actually spar with weapons (or replicas, obviously you aren't going to give two guys sharpened knives and say go for it) opens your eyes to the reality of surroundings better than anything else.

The simple fact and truth is, the more realisticly you spar, then the more likely you will be able to and comfortable using the techniques you learned in a real fight. The problem is that many people train with "stop and go" sparring where you don't continue to attack after you have landed a few strikes or might not be doing it full power.

As far as fighting dirty, if they can do it so can you as well you should.

If you look forward to laughing at the "lies" you are expecting how do we know what you are saying is not a lie.

I have a grappling background too, and have kept people off of me when they tried to grab me as well. Maybe you didn't train realistically.

size difference is also a reality. This is recognized by good teachers and ignored by bad who ignore the fact that a guy with a 200lb weight advantage has a HUGE advantage over a smaller guy. Anyone who thinks that martial arts are executed in sparring or in real life as seamlessly as they are in the movies is an idiot.


EDIT: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=48122
read the first post and check the link there.

Answer 4

Try to add a yoga class, I am a practicing martial Artsist who has been doing, Judo, Eskrima, and Jujitsu for over twenty years, yet the first time i tried Yoga i was absolutely exhausted afterwards. It will help with strength, flexability and balance, all things that you need as a Martial Artist. It will also help give you stamina, and a different kind of workout. Yoga is an anarobic workout, meaning your heart rate does not go up very high, with this workout you will be burning Fat and developing better cardio, with an aerobic workout, which is what most of us get when training in Martial Arts you burn sugars. They are both necessary. Yoga will supplement your Martial Arts training very well. As for Tai Chi, It would be an excellent supplement as well, many schools teach both Tai Chi and Kung Fu and the reason is that they do go well together. Tai Chi is not just the slow motion art you see old people doing in the park, and done quickly and effectively the techniques are deadly. It will also really help your balance and flexibility, as well as teaching you to center yourself. As for the person who said that MMA is the only way to go, sorry pal, though i certainly won't knock MMA, I must say one of the scariest Masters i have ever met is a five foot 140 pound 50 year old Kung Fu and Tai Chi Master. I know we all like to believe that the styles we choose to train in are the "best" but seriously, have some respect and realize that a true and dedicated Martial Artist can be excellent no matter what style they train in.

Answer 5

Some martial artists think sparring is the end all be all of training. it is only an exercise. When I kumite I realize it is only an exercise. We try to make it as real as possible.
But the truth with kumite is this, there are no points, there are no winners/losers, it is all just a learning exercise. The only loser is the one who kumites and learns nothing.

Yes, sparring/kumite is very different from the street. In the street things are quick, sloppy, dirty, painful and dangerous. There is no beginning command, often times you don't know you are about to be attacked. There are usually weapons or multiple opponents. the best a martial artist can hope to do is avoid these situations altogether. Recognize trouble before it happens. That is the value of martial arts, situational awareness and the lack of ego required to step down from a fight.
A fight is a willing, physical clash of egos while a self-defense situation lacks the option of walking away, you are defending for your life and that is a whole different ball game than a fight.
I walk away form fights and avoid situations where I would need to use self-defense. And that is the safest path a person can walk as well as the most peaceful.
SunTzu said it best "In the path of war, thorny bushes spring up."

Answer 6

Man, you're right for the most part. And I would also say you've been lucky having your grappling background. I have experienced the same for the most part. The closest thing I have had in a real fight was when one dude knew to get me in his guard and was also alret when I tried to lock up one of his arms. It was kind of one of those moments where you go,"Oh Sh1t, you're not supposed to know how to fight too. Now what do I do?" But still it ain't the same as when you roll with a buddy and all that. I wasn't really ready for that at all. I didn't figure the loudmouth knew how to fight. Bad assumption.

I do have a brother-in-law that trained a little when he was younger and although he isn't much of a grappler when I come at him with a straight arm in a slow windmill like motion with an imaginary knife he will block it every time. (As long as I let him know it's coming first.) Other than grappling and knowing how to take and deliver hits, it can't be the same. It's a dance and unless both people involved know the steps and are working together it won't look smooth.

Look att eh Jackie Chan outtakes at the end of his flicks. He is amazing to watch. But many of the cool looking things he does don't really work, at least not with a great enough certainty to actually try it in a real situation. He would be dead now if he tried some of that stuff against a real gun weilding attacker. But it sure as heII looks cool in the movies.

Oh one more thing I understand that a chick with fighting skills can kick a man's ***. But why is it in the movies that she is usually up against an opponent that has a good 100 pounds of meat on her and the same level of ability but she can take him. You want to talk about seing something from the movies cross over to a street fight. I want to see that.

Answer 7

Well, while you somewhat insult some of the people, I'll just disregard it. You can laugh all you want. I understand what you mean by it not working in a real fight or something, but through all I've been through, the only things that haven't worked are the combinations. Like, the kicking then breaking of arms and legs.

Personally, I try to stay away from fighting for the simple fact that I enjoy using mental over physical, it just makes the other person even more angry.

I've been able to use basic kicks, punches, and all of the basics that I've learned in Taekwondo in my fights. So, you can say what you want, but if the person has enough mental capability, anything is possible in a fight. You just have to keep a clear mind and stay calm. =)

Answer 8

you're right martial arts to a certain extent is sport its a controlled environment. movies are hyped up for viewers theirs no back flips and 360 cresent kicks in a real fight. now this being said the things you get out of most arts can help you in a real fight, timing, balance, power...if you use the most practical technique in a fight you'd probably be fine against an everyday attacker. a lot of fights end up on the ground so you need to consider that and have a grappling game not only a striking.

a good martial art(self defense)for a real fight are krav maga, jeet kune do and san soo which focus on just defending yourself using eye gouges, getting out of holds, and other things you'll get into in a real fight

Answer 9

To learn to fight you have to train against somebody who is fighting back.

Is sparring the same as real fighting? No, of course not. Sparring is as close as you can get to a real fight and still be safe though. There is nothing wrong with training kata and doing some compliant drills. But, if you are not eventually ramping it up to some type of free form training, then you are fooling yourself if you think you are learning to fight.

And don't give me any of the "the ring isn't the street" BS. 9 times out of 10, the guy who wins in the ring is going to win in the street too.

Answer 10

I was gonna give a long answer. However I realize you wouldn't believe me. So... look at K-1, Pride, UFC, and other fighters. Ask yourself would you really want to mess with those guys? Those guys spar everyday on regular base.

My bet is 90% of members here will come with "I'll grab his throat, scratch, bite, eye gouge, or kick his knee" or "they'll lose because they are use to rule" or simply dodge the question. However I know they would wet their pants if they get on one of those guys bad side.

Here's some good example of experienced fighter fighting against someone much bigger and stronger without martial arts training:

Ihttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17LTuwURsdw