Is Ali's place as the greatest heavyweight in history in serious jeopardy?

Question

This past friday, a 44 year old Real Deal surprised the whole boxing community with his win over a serious, younger fighter and his winning of an important regional title.
Holyfield's shot at a 5th title is probably going to happen. It could not have come at a better time in boxing history. The division is the most vulnerable it's ever been, with a group of Ivan Drago wannabes holding the three major belts.

If Evander just gets to fight for his 5th title, it's an accomplishment itself.
If he can pull it off, if he can win just one of the three major titles, do we seriously have to consider him the greatest heavyweight in history, over and above Ali?

Evander has also gone 15 rounds.

smitty - that's an amazing answer. Probably going to be best answer. I have Evander in my top 5 of all time right now. Number 4 behind Holmes and ahead of Louis.
Of those guys on your list, I think Evander beats them all, except for Foreman and Holmes, in their respective primes.

Answer 1

Brad you are beginning to suffer from boxing dementia. The same thing is going to happen to Holyfield if he doesn't retire. In sports, age is the great equalizer.

Brent - Ali did give Norton a title shot in 1976. I hope you were kidding when you said Holyfield could be ranked behind Ali at #2. If not, you are suffering from to many blows to the head or feedback from asking about the same "Dream Bouts"

To both of you - How many of these fighters could Holyfield beat from the following list: Louis, Rocco, Johnson, Holmes, Dempsey, Foreman, Liston and Frazier in their primes.

Holyfield could never be equal to Ali. He couldn't carry Ali's shoes or trunks.

P.S. Holyfield says that he won't retire until God tells him to.
Let tell you a story - There once was a man that was drowning in a flood. He refused help because he said that God would help him. He drowned and in heaven he asked God why he didn't help him. St. Peter told him that all those boats that he had refused. had come from God.

Answer 2

Absolutely not!! Don't get me wrong, I love Holyfield. His wars with Bowe, Tyson and Lewis (just for example) define the word Warrior. However, through no fault of his own, this recent comeback is only being entertained in light of the lack of talent in the heavyweight ranks. If he can make it a fight with Shannon Briggs, he'll easily recapture a title, but to expect him to overcome the right hand of Klitscko, or the height and reach of Valuev is asking too much and may result in the legacy of Holyfield being tarnished.

Ali was in an amazing era of Heavyweight boxing that was unmatched. Frazier, Foreman, Holmes....15 round title fights....and as important as anything else, the way Ali marketed Boxing with his charisma will never be duplicated.

Answer 3

If Holyfield wins the title for the unprecedented 5th time, he'll be in a class of his own. It doesn't mean he's the greatest though. That title belongs to ALI. Winning more championships doesn't necessarily mean you're the greatest.
I admire Holyfield's heart and he's the most courageous boxer ever. Ali beat the best and popularized boxing.

Answer 4

Ali and Holyfield both have courage and heart. That's what sets them apart. They both have/had child support payments to make. Sorry had to take that jab. What does that have to do with the question? I guess each of us are entitled to our opinion. The easy way out would be to say Ali isn't in jeopardy, he is one of my favorite fighters. But I'm going to think back a moment and be critical of Ali (which isn't easy for me). When he was older and his skills were diminished he wanted to keep that title and although there was Norton and the young Holmes out there waiting for that title shot, he chose to fight an inexperienced Spinks, underestimated him and lost his title. He gained it back, by busting his a** to get in the best shape he was capable of. Holyfield in a sense is doing the same thing. Evander saw what a joke the heavyweight division is and he is capitalizing on his opportunity. If he wins it he may not unuseed Ali as the best ever, but he could be ranked 1,1a or number 2 it's not that far fetched folks. (I tried to be critical of Ali but I guess I couldn't pull it off)

side note: I was trying to compare Ali and Evander as far as quality of opposition, Leon was a joke(a_p_ - he won the gold medal too by the way)as are the current 3 major heavyweight title holders.

Smitty, in my opinion Holyfield is capable of beating any of those fighters on your list, in any part of their careers. Holyfield is underestimated, except in the heart and courage dept. I guess I have taken too many blows to the head, Mr. the self proclaimed "Bible of Boxing".

Answer 5

As an avid boxing fan I can assure you that nobody will ever take the place of Ali, he truly is "the greatest". He had speed, stamina, footwork, strength and heart. He was truly and still is a champion.

What we have today is just a mismanaged group of fighters who have trouble getting out of their own way, and a bunch of promoters who want only money, there is no good reason to place any of today's fighters above Ali.

Answer 6

No.
Holyfield has heart (and apparently a lot of child support payments), maybe the most courageous heavyweight of all time. But Ali was poetry. He redefined what a boxer, even a sports icon, can be. But, as with anything, it's only a matter of opinion. No matter what, I can GUARANTEE that Real Deal will end up right where Ali is today: Brain damaged and a reminder of what too many years of being punched in the face can do to you.

Answer 7

my friend,i feel you! evander has a great chance the only one who has a chance to defeat him is klicthko.as for ali's position as #1 it can never be removed by anyone.he has accomplished so many things in and out of the ring, yes 3 is less than 5 but look at the man. giving credit to evander he's a tough cookie but ali will allways be #1.

Answer 8

aaaaamen, brother smitty! i must say i have tremendous respect for evander holyfield. i was a big fan of his as a crusierweight and, when he jumped up to heavy, i drooled over the prospect of him fighting tyson. what a shame that fight never happened in '91. anyways, i digress. holyfield, warrior supreme that he is, can never be considered the greatest fighter/heavyweight of all time, even if he wins the title 10 times! ALI stands alone bec he singlehandedly brought his sport into the modern era and defined what it meant to be a boxer, an athlete, a celebrity, and a man. even taking away his accomplishments outside of the ring(which no one, esp any athelete, can ever match or live up to bec those volatile sixties will never come again), his accomplishments inside the ring and his domination over what pratically everyone says is the greatest era of boxing, can never be duplicated. ALI's victories over a then-invulnerable liston (2x), archie moore, and floyd patterson, as well as his ultimate, shining moment of the era - his complete domination over cleveland williams; his impressive showing against a fighter of the frazier caliber in the superfight showed all boxing fans he had heart and could actually fight - in a bout that was only his third fight after a 3+ yr layoff; his fighting through a broken jaw w/then-unknown ken norton for 12+ more rounds; his victory over frazier in the second fight - almost knocking him down midway thru the fight!; his victory over the then-invincible foreman - which almost no one gave him a shot at doing; his return victories over frazier (#3), in what may have been the fight of his life, physically, and over norton (#2/#3), his victory over earnie shavers - arguably, the hardest puncher ever, and his comeback against a young hungry leon spinks - was there a dry eye that night?

now what does holyfield have in his resume to top any of that? i fear that when all is said and done, that holyfield may end up like rocky marciano - worshipped by many and questioned by many re: his rightful place in the annals of boxing. marciano was the only fighter to retire undefeated(professionally, only) and stay that way,but his competition was questionable at best. yes he deserves accolades but does he really belong in the same class as prime louis, johnson, or ALI!?! likewise, holy may receive the same mixed reaction bec he beat a shell of mike tyson; a bowe who never really amounted to much; couldn't get past lewis; barely got by a fighter as limited as cooper, and looked quite unimpressive against holmes and foreman, though he clearly won on the scorecards. holy has had some sublime moments in the ring, but he has had some dreary moments, as well, and that, in my mind, leaves him open to question. he was all over the place: when he won, he won big, when he lost, he lost big, and many times in between he just bored the piss out of me. no one can question his heart, his skills, or his desire, but i do think his legacy, when you look at the full range of his product, leaves something to be desired. however, like i said, i personally have enormous respect for the man and thought he was an awesome fighter in his day. but that day is past

so, to the real deal, i do admire you sir, tremendously! you have given a great account of yourself, overall, but it is time for you to remove yourself from the game and not risk what so many before you have and lost. keep your faculties and your money and get out/stay out before you get hurt and become an object of pity and i-told-you-so rhetoric. they say, if you stand by the riverside long enough, you see the bodies of all your enemies floating by. tyson, lewis, bowe, etc. have all sailed downstream. now it's time for you to set sail on your journey, for sometimes in life: even if you win....you lose. and that would be a shame for someone as proud and talented as you are. protect your legacy, protect yourself....retire and move on to something else!

Answer 9

I think that he is an idol in the eyes of everyone, and he is a celebrity. I think after the Tyson ordeal, the people interested in this has dropped, and I think that Ali was the most famous boxer ever.

Answer 10

i dont think holy replaces ali, but should he win a 5th, he surely deserves to be mentioned with ali & louis. he was never considered invincible like they were, but to me that makes his career even more amazing