How can someone be good at the basics (karate) in the mirror (at school)..fast, tight punches, good kicks,?

Question

etc., but BAD in actual sparring? Where's the disconnect?

Answer 1

This is a very confusingly worded question!
I am presuming you are saying that someone who is good at forms can also be bad at sparring?
Yes this is the case, because sparring has to do with timing as well, whereas forms are more to do with well drilled movements....

Answer 2

I was thinking about take Shorin ryu Karate a few months ago. So, I did some research on Karate in general. I asked some question here on Yahoo too. I got the same weird explanations that Karate has some kind of extensive grappling too. I thought that was odd and stretching the truth a bit. Anyway, from the general research I a have seen about Karate in all it's forms is this, it has: handstrikes, kicking, throws/sweeps, and a follow up strikes on the ground. I have never grappling on the ground like in BJJ or Judo. That is the general strategy of Karate in a fight, punch/kick, throw (if needed), and strike them on the ground (usually with a punch). I don't know where anybody gets any type of grappling (other than standup throw or strikes from a clinch) from Karate. If you look at Lyoto Machida in the UFC, he does that general Karate strategy, his style is Shotokan Karate. He punches/kicks, uses a sweep/throw, and finished it from there. All his ground grappling is mostly BJJ from what I know, not Shotokan. But, you see the Karate skills he specializes in emphasized a lot. He isn't know to be a ground grappling wizard. Karateka just aren't known for that. But, if you are just surpised that Karate is more than just punches and kicks, well, yes, it indeed has more! Karate isn't bad for a martial art. I think in the katas and more advanced material, they may address more with ground grapplers, but, not in general. It has some good moves and all. You just have to do some research on Karate and compare it with your potential school. When I was thinking about Karate, I did the research as I said, then compared it with that Shorin Ryu school. They didn't have hardly any throw or sweeps and it was mainly just point sport Karate. I was disappointed and looked elsewhere. But, all those moves: knees, elbows, trips, sweeps, throws, and takedowns are indeed part of original Karate. They aren't added on in modern times from what I know. When I looked into a Kung Fu school they were also the same way. But, none of the styles have ground grappling extensively, that is all added on and is "new" if they have it.

Answer 3

You're talking about the difference between form and application.... Pretty ain't usually a good basis for effective. And effective is usually not pretty.

Besides.... To paraphrase a classic quote: Mirrors "don't hit back."

But I assume you're looking for a little advice on how to make the connection between your form and your application. 1) Spar more. If you're like most, the pressure of having someone coming after you may be distracting you from effectively using your techniques. More experience with someone throwing punches and kicks at you will help you get past the fear. 2) Use the KISS principle. Did you know that many world champion kickboxers only rely on a handful of techniques in competition? Guys like Chuck Norris and Bill Wallace practiced and focused on two or three specific punches or kicks that they could execute easily and effectively to score.

Answer 4

You're right: usually how good you are at basics will reflect how good you are at sparing, but there are other factors to consider.

For one thing, there's reaction time. I've known a few people that, through no fault of their own, had a disconnect which resulted in their being 1/3 as fast as other people to react to an attack as other people. Obviously, that's not going to do very well in sparing.

Also, timidness can play a huge role. I've never won a sparing match at a full contact competition because I'm afraid of hurting the other guy. I have a few times... then I lost the match because I was too timid to hit him.

Also, there's a big difference between knowing *how* to kick and punch, and knowing *when* and *where* to kick and punch. That's the problem I've been addressing with one of my Yellow Belts lately. He's one of the best kickers and punchers in the class durring the basics and warm ups, but in sparing, he tends to target the hands and kick too soon. It doesn't do a lot of good.

Then there's experience: one of my new students is strong and fast for her size, and was amazed at first when she couldn't immediately win against me at one of our pre-sparing games (Push/Pull.) She has a faster reaction time than I do, but I know how the bones and such work better and have better balance. What kind of people are you sparing that are beating you so completely?

I'm sure there's other factors also that I just didn't think of off the top of my head.

Answer 5

There is a difference between speed & reflexes. You may have good hand & foot speed but be slow recognizing your oponents movements. This mat be due either to inexperience in sparring or lack of focus.
It is also possible that when sparring, you are too worried about getting hit. As I recall from 1 of your previous questions, this is not only possible but probable in your case. You need to train your spirit as well as your body.

Answer 6

This is how martial artists go from "look at me I'm awesome" to a heap of body parts on the street. the inability to use the tools in a realistic content. some are awesome to watch doing kata, but laughable in sparring. the brain is the weakest link. either reflexes, or emotional overload.

going through the motions and actually having to utilize them as a reflex is where the problem is. the mind can go through repetition easily but in this case cannot put it to practical use.

are they intimidated once they have an opponent, or just unable to think on a faster wavelength?

Answer 7

I was just the opposite. In my early days I sucked at forms, but I was very good at sparring. That was a long time ago and I've improved greatly since then. I understand the frustration. Although I understood how to do well executed techniques in sparring and combinations, I seemed unable to grasp that missing link enabling me to apply this ability while doing forms. I practiced a lot and then one day it just clicked and I was like "Oh, yeah, I get it it now. Duh!" I guess my only suggestion is to just keep practicing and wait for the "click" Kind of like one of those holographic type pictures. It doesn't seem to make any sense, but if you stare at it long enough a picture suddenly emerges.

Answer 8

Well, when performing this stuff we're recalling it from memory. But when in actual sparring you're facing someone who might not be in a position for you to execute certain attacks. Furthermore, it's easily to get stress in sparring and all the techniques you learn are simply block from your mind. Therefore it requires alot of experience in actual sparring before one can perform well.

Answer 9

Few different reason:

-Your basic is unrealistic (do you have habit of leave your punch linger? Do you leave your hands down at waist? Do you stand in akward stance? List goes on) so opponent take advantage of it.

-You doesn't train properly for sparring. You can't do kata and shadow boxing all day and expect to be good at spar. You have to do bag work to get know to what distance to throw punch or kicks from and how to throw it hard and fast. You also have to do pads work with instructor who will tap you if you leave your guard down.

-You doesn't have the timing develope because you imagine opponent hitting/kicking you. So you got too use to see something come instead of using reflex to block, evade, or counter.

-If your opponent do other style, they basically put you in bad position (clinch, leg kick, throw, take down which most older karates doesn't have much of)

-Your instructor simply isn't right one for you (I have this happened to me and yes it was very painful to leave him. He was my first Muay Thai instructor)

-You're at disadvantage in some way (are you the shortest person in your gym and you try to use long range attack against them? Are you slowest that they easily outspeed you?)

-Could be something with your mental.

Could be thousands other reasons.

Answer 10

well speed training is just practicing speed, sparring is using the application of speed+technique+strength - weakness= effectiveness. Not to mention that shadow boxing your shadow doesnt hit back. Sparring also teaches you defense also!