Mormon temple Ordinances arent supposed to change but they have, WHy ?

Question

"The Prophet Joseph Smith taught, 'Ordinances instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world, in the priesthood, for the salvation of men, are not to be altered or changed.'"
In 1836, "...Joseph Smith declared that he `had now completed the organization of the Church, and we had passed through all the necessary ceremonies,'" (pp. 35-36)
"Five years later in Nauvoo, on 19 January 1841, a new revelation... (concerning) `your anointings, and your washings, and your baptisms for the dead....' Thus, the Saints who had been previously anointed in Kirtland learned that those rituals were a precursor to new ceremonies," (p. 36)
During the Nauvoo Period, a ceremony called the second anointing was introduced.
The list of changes goes on and on and on, If all things were done and things cant be changed, Why have they ?
The last temple change was in 1990, over 100 years of divine corrections ?

pinkadot1 and beta_fish...

Give me your email via email and i will send you pages of questions and research i did.
[e-mail]

To be nice i only put some changes in
here are some more WACKY changes
In 1877, the theological influence of Brigham Young could be observed in the Temple Ceremony. In the St. George Temple, "...a revised thirty-minute `lecture at the veil' which summarized important theological concepts taught in the endowment and also contained references to the Adam-God doctrine" was given (p. 50-51).
In General Conference of April 1894, President Wilford Woodruff "...stopped the practice of sealing people to General Authorities and other Church members outside their family lineage and instead directed that they be sealed to their own parents," (p. 52).

The Word of Wisdom became a central issue in 1921. "For the first time, adherence to the Word of Wisdom became an official requirement for admission to the temple. Apparently this had been encouraged prior to 1921, but exceptions had been made," (p. 56)

In 1927, Apostle George F. Richards sent a letter "...to all temple presidents (which) directed that they `omit from the prayer circle all reference to avenging the blood of the Prophet," (p. 55). This reference was known as the Oath of Vengeance.

The ceremony was shortened from "six to nine hours in length to roughly three hours." The "graphic penalties, all of which closely follow Masonic penalties' wording, were moderated." The Temple garment style was "altered," (p. 55).
Some of these deletions and changes, including, the "preacher's reference to Satan having black skin," which is no longer mentioned. Also, "Satan and the preacher no longer fix a specific salary to proselytize the audience for converts," (p. 62 ftnt.).

Do i really need to go on ?

These arent changes these seem to be corrections Divine Corrections ?

straightu -- You dont think TAKING out whole items are changes ?
SO if i took out the Book of Nephi from the book of mormon is it still the Fullness of the Gospel ? what about if we took out the
"And so it came to pass" phrase since its stated 1,381 times

Cause conflicts ? You say my goal is to cause conflicts ?
Kinda like how DNA testing conflicts with native americans are descendents of Israelite ?

No i just want answers thats all, i have studied the LDS religion for most of my life trying to find it to be true but i keep finding holes :(

whapingmo...
None of the exampes you gave are valid for these generartions we both know the laws changed when the TRUE fullness of the gospel was created with Jesus Christ
Matt. 16:18-19.
I am not Anti Mormon, i just wanted to learn the truth, unlike Mormons i dont see other religions as the Great Abomination like you see Catholics.

TO lisabug77...
I am not mormon what are you talking about?

Answer 1

Mormon temples are not an extension of the Biblical temple. LDS temples conflict with Biblical revelation:

The LDS Church operates many temples, whereas the divine revelation stipulates only one temple building.

The Aaronic priesthood of Mormonism ignores the scriptural lineage requirements.

Non-priests are allowed to enter Mormon temples, whereas only priests could enter the Biblical temple.

None of the ordinances performed in Mormon temples, such as endowments, baptism for the dead, and eternal marriage, were performed in the Biblical temple; its function was making atonement for sins as a precondition to worshipping the true and living God.

Jesus replaced the Old Covenant, of which the Biblical temple was a part. He established a New Covenant based on His once-for-all atoning sacrifice, and under which He now serves as the believer’s "great high priest" in the very sanctuary of heaven (Hebrews 4:14-16). A New Testament temple building is therefore a contradiction in terms, for it ignores the finished work of Christ, and harks back to the Old Covenant.

There is evidence of Joseph Smith's close connection to occultism and Freemasonry, and how this influenced the origin and development of the LDS Church and their temple rituals. Essential characteristics common to both occult rituals and the Mormon Temple ceremonies:
 They are revealed by God from the beginning, but distorted through apostasy.
 They place an emphasis on the worthiness of initiates.
 They include washings and anointings, a new name and garments
 They emphasize vows of non-disclosure.
 There are both "lesser" and "greater" rituals.
 They feature presentation of the ritual through drama.
 They contain an oath of chastity requiring strict purity and virtue of the participants.
 They feature prominent use of the sun, moon and stars as key symbols.
 The purpose of the ritual is to assist mortals to attain to godhood.
 They employ titles and offices of prophets, priests and kings to those in leadership.

Joseph Smith became a Mason on March 15, 1842 and "rose to the sublime degree" the following day. Less than two months later, on May 4, 1842, Joseph introduced the temple endowment ceremony (History of the Church, Vol. 5, pp. 1-2). Much of the religious ritual within Mormonism finds its origin in both occultism and Freemasonry. It is not surprising that there is an overlap between occultism and Freemasonry within Mormonism since Masonry itself draws from occult lore and ritual. What becomes obvious is that Joseph neglected the Bible's clear prohibition regarding occult involvement. This is found in Deuteronomy 18:9-12.

Answer 2

I've read all the posts so far (except KristyCristy's), and it occurs to me that you don't understand the ordinance itself. It is the ordinance that does not/can not change. However, over the years man has added or changed it, or made mandetory some aspect of it that isn't necessary to full acceptance of the ordinance itself. For example, the reason people were getting sealed to people other than their own biological parents was because they felt they would have a better chance at getting into the Celestial Kingdom if they had been sealed to a prophet or apostle or someone like that. Since the church is all about families, and how heaven will be organized with the family as the primary unit, it seems only logical to have people sealed to their family and not someone who they think they wished to be their family. So a change was made. It wasn't made to the ordinence of sealing, but to who could be sealed to who.
What you have to realize is that it's principles and concepts that are taught in the temple. And it was realized very early on that principles are taught the easiest through stories, analogies, and parables. So even though, through having been taught by God, and angels these principles, it's very hard to tell someone a principle and Joseph Smith knew this and so he (and I'm sure others) developed what we now know as the endowment. The changes that have occured are to the stories/analogies/parables contained within the ordinence, or involves the semantics of an ordinence - not the ordinence itself, not the principle taught. On occasion the way in which a concept was taught contained verbage that while correct for the time, needed to be changed because God felt the time was right. My point specifically is with your quote on infering that the church once thought that people of color were of the devil. At one time, black men could not hold the priesthood - and my thought is that God knew that the CONCEPT of a black man being equal to a white man would not be accepted by SOCIETY, so instead of forcing the issue (because God does not Force anyone into anything), He allowed for some miswording to continue until a time came where SOCIETY would accept the CONCEPT of a black man being equal to a white man. When this time "came to pass" wording within the ordinences changed, not to reflect a changing God, but to reflect a more accurate representation of the ordinence.
As for the "second anointing", my only comment to that would be that just as ordinences are performed by proxy for those with incomplete information (like no last name, or no birth day - not month or year but the day like the 7th) and we're told that at some point it will be "worked out" and that our relative will know who they are and by what name the work was done for them, so too was the anointing so worked out - it just happened to be while everyone who partook of the anointing done in error was still alive.
And by the way, there have been changes since 1990, but I'm guessing it was around that time that you stopped going to the temple and started pursuing this line of thought.

Answer 3

That is the most wacky logic I have ever seen. You first state that the Ordinances are instituted in the heavens and are not altered or changed, but then you only cite to new ordinances introduced on Earth. A new ordinance does not mean it is a changed ordinance.

Secondly, you refer to the changes in 1990 to the temple ordinance. However, assuming I know what you are getting at, the ordinances themselves have not changed, even if some of the language or wording has (or even certain actions). If you got married, saying one thing in your vows, then got divorced and remarried, making somewhat different vows (maybe even saying your vows while standing on your head), would not the ordinance or marriage be the same? Would your marriage to that person be the same? Of course it would. Again, your argument is rediculous and flawed.

Answer 4

buddy, to go broadcasting such sacred stuff over the internet shows your level of commitment to the sacred covenants you have supposedly made with your God and Father and Heaven. It shows that huge lack of respect, your ignorance, you complete lack of faith and understanding, your pride and stubborness to learn the truth and accept it AND LIVE IT.

I will bet money that you have been engaged in wrongful behavior that the church frowns upon and action has been taken on your behalf to help you but you are now so offended and arrogant about it that you are now fighting the Church; the Kingdom of God.

The wicked take the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.

Stop trying to nit-pick apart the church of God. Jesus Christ is at the head of it. He guides and directs it himself through an instrument called a Prophet. The modern day prophet today is President Gordan B. Hinckley. The fact that you won't accept any of this proves your allegiance to the "other" side, because either you are for God, or you are against God. And it is not Christ-like or God-like or loving or Christian in any sense to pick apart and attack a specific religion or group of believers of God.

I suggest that you repent and find yourself again; beg for forgiveness and let your heart be changed.... or you will face a bitter end.

Answer 5

All of God's ordinance are everalasting. So, ignoring your attack on the LDS church, your real question is can an everlasting covenant change? The answer is yes.

"He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant." (Gen. 17:13, Ciricumcision)

"And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance forever." (Exo. 12:14, Passover)

These are just two everlasting biblical covenants that have changed.

Please stop posting your anti-Mormon "questions." As you are supposedly Christian, why not spend time asking faith promoting questions or witnessing whatever truth you believe in?

Answer 6

I'm really interested as to where you're getting your info. I've been a member all my life and have been to the temple many times, and as far as I can tell, none of your claims or quotes have any "basis in fact" (p. 43).

Edit: Um, no thanks. I prefer to keep the discussion here on the Q/A boards. Give your reference. What book are you quoting from and where did you learn of all these "changes in the temple ceremonies"? And finally, if you don't believe in Mormonism...why the obsession with it? If I don't believe another church is for me...I just leave it alone. Seems almost psychotic to do what you seem to be doing, but maybe that's just my impression?

Answer 7

Again, no doctrine has ever changed. Also, who are we to ask God why? When it is appropriate to him is what I would say. I know even in the past five years some ways certain things are done have been changed. Who knows WHY? Does it matter? Doesn't mean the gospel isn't true, just means God wanted something to be different. I don't see the prob.

Answer 8

No need to hide your intention to cause conflicts in our doctrine,

To answer your so call question, we believe in following the living prophet, he is the one that say what is and what is not.
and by the way, our ordinances do not change.

Answer 9

You Think that i see the Catholic church as a "Great abomination"? 11th article of faith, "We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may"

I have nothing against people of the Catholic faith, it matters little to me what your religion is, and there is nothing wrong with being Catholic

Answer 10

"Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name (NOT THE NAMES) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" (St. Matt. 28:20).



Many Christians begin to learn about the Trinity through knowledge of Baptism. This is also a starting point for others in comprehending why the doctrine matters to so many Christians, even though the doctrine itself teaches that the being of God is beyond complete comprehension. The Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed are structured around profession of the Trinity, and are solemnly professed by converts to Christianity when they receive baptism, and in the Church's liturgy, particularly when celebrating the Eucharist. One or both of these creeds are often used as brief summations of Christian faith by mainstream denominations.

One God
God is one, and the Godhead a single being: The Hebrew Scriptures lift this one article of faith above others, and surround it with stern warnings against departure from this central issue of faith, and of faithfulness to the covenant God had made with them. "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD" (Deuteronomy 6:4) (the Shema), "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" (Deuteronomy 5:7) and, "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel and his redeemer the LORD of hosts: I am the first and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6). Any formulation of an article of faith which does not insist that God is solitary, that divides worship between God and any other, or that imagines God coming into existence rather than being God eternally, is not capable of directing people toward the knowledge of God, according to the trinitarian understanding of the Old Testament. The same insistence is found in the New Testament: "...there is none other God but one" (1 Corinthians 8:4). The "other gods" warned against are therefore not gods at all, but substitutes for God, and so are, according to St. Paul, simply mythological or are demons.

So, in the trinitarian view, the common conception which thinks of the Father and Christ as two separate beings, is incorrect. The central, and crucial affirmation of Christian faith is that there is one savior, God, and one salvation, manifest in Jesus Christ, to which there is access only because of the Holy Spirit. The God of the Old is still the same as the God of the New. In Christianity, it is understood that statements about a solitary god are intended to distinguish the Hebraic understanding from the polytheistic view, which see divine power as shared by several separate beings, beings which can, and do, disagree and have conflicts with each other. The concept of Many comprising One is quite visible in the Gospel of John, chapter 17, verses 20 through 23.

God exists in three persons

The "Shield of the Trinity" or "Scutum Fidei" diagram of traditional Western Christian symbolism.This one God however exists in three persons, or in the Greek hypostases. God has but a single divine nature. Chalcedonians — Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants — hold that, in addition, the Second Person of the Trinity — God the Son, Jesus — assumed human nature, so that he has two natures (and hence two wills), and is really and fully both true God and true human.


The singleness of God's being and the multiplicity of the Divine Persons together account for the nature of Christian salvation, and disclose the gift of eternal life. "Through the Son we have access to the Father in one Spirit" (Ephesians 2:18). Communion with the Father is the goal of the Christian faith and is eternal life. It is given to humans through the Divine union with humanity in Jesus Christ who, although fully God, died for sinners "in the flesh" to accomplish their redemption, and this forgiveness, restoration, and friendship with God is made accessible through the gift to the Church of the Holy Spirit, who, being God, knows the Divine Essence intimately and leads and empowers the Christian to fulfill the will of God. Thus, this doctrine touches on every aspect of the trinitarian Christian's faith and life; and this explains why it has been so earnestly contended for, throughout Christian history.

Source(s):

Douay Rheims Bible

78 References and Illusions To The Trinity Found In The Sacred Scriptures


I. Even the Old Testament makes definite reference both to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.

Isaiah 11:2 "...the Spirit ... the Lord ... Him"

Isaiah 42:1 "My Servant ... I ... My Spirit ... upon Him"

Isaiah 48:16 "The Lord God ... His Spirit ... sent Me"

Isaiah 61:1 "Spirit of the Lord God ... upon Me ... the Lord"

Isaiah 63:9 "He ...the Angel of His Presence ... His Holy Spirit"

II. Close examination of the following New Testament scriptures will make obvious to any student of the Bible that the doctrine of the Godhead is truth.

Matthew 1:20, 21 "the Lord (the Father) ... the Holy Spirit ... Jesus"

Matthew 3:16, 17 "Jesus ... the Spirit of God ... a Voice from heaven (the Father)"

Matthew 12:18 "I ... My Spirit ... on Him"

Matthew 22:42, 43 "Christ ... the Spirit ... Lord (the Father)"

Mark 1:9-11 "Jesus ... the Spirit ... a Voice from heaven ... My beloved Son"

Mark 12:35, 36 "Christ ... the Holy Spirit ... the Lord (the Father)"

Luke 1:35 "the Holy Spirit ... the Highest ... the Son of God"

Luke 2:26, 27 "the Holy Spirit ... Christ ... Jesus"

Luke 3:21, 22 "Jesus ... the Holy Spirit ... a Voice from heaven ... My beloved Son"

Luke 10:21 "Jesus ... the Spirit ... Father"

Luke 12:9, 10 "God ... the Son ... the Holy Spirit"

John 3:5 "Jesus ... the Spirit ... God"

John 3:34, 35 "God ... the Spirit ... the Father ... the Son"

John 4:24, 25 "God ... a Spirit ... Messiah... Christ"

John 14:16, 17, 26 "the Comforter ... the Father ... in My name"

John 15:26 "the Comforter ... the Father ... of Me"

John 20:21, 22 "Jesus ... Father ... the Holy Spirit"

Acts 2:32,33 "Jesus ... God ... the Father ... the Holy Spirit"

Acts 2:38,39 "Jesus Christ ... the Holy Spirit ... God"

Acts 4:30,31 "Jesus ... the Holy Spirit ... God"

Acts 5:31,32 "God ... a Prince and Savior ... the Holy Spirit"

Acts 7:55 "the Holy Spirit ... Jesus ... God"

Acts 8:14_16 "God ... the Holy Spirit ... Jesus"

Acts 10:38 "God ... Jesus ... the Holy Spirit"

Acts 10:46_48 "God ... the Holy Spirit ... the Lord"

Acts 11:16, 17 "the Lord... the Holy Spirit ... God ... the Lord Jesus Christ"

Acts 20:21_23 "God ... Jesus ... the Holy Spirit"

Romans 1:1,3,4 "God ... His Son, Jesus Christ ... the Spirit"

Romans 5:5,6 "God ... the Holy Spirit ... Christ"

Romans 8:2,3 "the Spirit ... Jesus ... God ... His own Son"

Romans 8:8,9 "God ... the Spirit ... the Spirit of Christ"

Romans 8:16, 17 "the Spirit ... God ... Christ"

Romans 14:17, 18 "the Holy Spirit ... Christ... God"

Romans 15:12, 13 "Root of Jesse (Jesus) ... God ... Holy Spirit"

Romans 15:16 "Jesus ... God ... the Holy Spirit"

Romans 15:30 "The Lord Jesus Christ ... the Spirit ... God"

1 Corinthians 6:10, 11 "God ... the Lord Jesus... the Spirit"

I Corinthians 12:4_6 "Spirit ... Lord... God"

1 Corinthians 7:39, 40 "the Lord Jesus ... the Spirit ... God"

1 Corinthians 8:2 "the Lord Jesus ... the Spirit ... God"

2 Corinthians 3:3, 4 "the Spirit ... Christ ... God"

2 Corinthians 13:14 "Jesus... God ... the Holy Spirit"

2 Corinthians 5:5, 6 "God ... the Spirit ... the Lord (Jesus)"

Galatians 4:6, 7 "God ... the Spirit ... Son ... Father ... God ... Christ"

Ephesians 2:18 "through Him (Jesus) ... Spirit ... the Father"

Ephesians 2:21, 22 "the Lord ... God ... the Spirit"

Ephesians 3:14, 16 "the Father ... Jesus Christ ... His Spirit"

Ephesians 4:4-6 "Spirit ... Lord (Jesus) ... God and Father"

Ephesians 5:18-20 "Spirit ... Lord (Jesus) ... God ... Father"

Colossians 1:6-8 "God ... Christ ... Spirit"

1Thessalonians 4:6-8 "Lord (Jesus) ... God ... Holy Spirit"

1 Thessalonians 5:18, 19 "God ... Father ... Christ ... Jesus ... Spirit"

2 Thessalonians 2:13, 14 "God ... Lord... God ... Spirit ... Lord Jesus Christ"

Titus 3:4-6 "God ... Holy Spirit ... Jesus Christ"

Hebrews 2:3, 4 "Lord (Jesus) ... God ... Holy Spirit"

Hebrews 3:4, 6, 7 "God ... Christ... Holy Spirit"

Hebrews 6:4-6 "Holy Spirit ... God ... Son"

Hebrews 9:14 "Christ ... Spirit ... God"

Hebrews 10:29-31 "Son of God ... Spirit ... Lord ... God"

1 Peter 1:2 "God the Father ... Spirit ... Jesus Christ"

1 Peter 3:18 "Christ ... God ... Spirit"

1 Peter 4:14 "Christ ... Spirit ... God"

2 Peter 1:21 "God ... Holy Spirit... Lord (Jesus)"

2 Peter 2:1 "God ... Holy Spirit ... Lord (Jesus)"

1 John 4:2 "Spirit ... Jesus ... God"

1 John 4:13, 14 "Spirit ... Father ... Son ... Savior"

1 John 5:7 "Father... Word ... Holy Spirit"

Jude 20, 21 "the Holy Spirit... God... Lord ... Jesus Christ"

Revelation 1:9, 10 "Jesus Christ ... God ... Jesus Christ ... Spirit"

Revelation 3:5-7 "Father ... Spirit ... He that hath the key of David (Jesus)"

Revelation 14:12, 13 "God ... Jesus ... Lord ... Spirit"

Revelation 21:9, 10 "Lamb ... Spirit ... God"

Revelation 22:16-18 "the offspring of David (Jesus) ... Spirit ... God"