Question for Christians (again) regarding homosexuality (again)?

Question

Ok. After reading some answers to various questions, I have a SERIOUS question here. I'm not trying to start a fight, I am just trying to get a straight answer (no pun intended).

Since the Old Testament "laws" are no longer valid, i.e. man with mankind like a woman, why do Christians then use adultery and pre-marital sex as a reason for homosexuality being wrong?

Knowing that our government (well, former government at least) wouldn't allow gay marriage, wouldn't this be unfair?

If our goverment allowed gay marriage (since they shouldn't make laws based on religion anyways, right?), then does that mean homosexuality would then be okay and accepted by Christianity?

If the basis of your argument is pre-marital sex and adultery is a sin, therefore homosexuals are a sin because they can't get married, couldn't it just all be solved by allowing gay marriage?

What would the Christian view point on homosexuality be then?

Answer 1

The Christian point of view varies, though fundamentalists won't tell you that. My Church supports gay marriage, so do many others.

The gay marriage fight is really a battle between two groups of religious denominations - Christian and other in both cases. That battle is being missed by the media, and I believe that the battle threatens democracy in America.

One of the reasons for the Revolution, in which ancestors of mine fought -- was to establish freedom of religion in the new nation. Now, we are throwing that away, because contrary to what those on the Right would like you to think, this is not a battle between "people of faith" and "atheists" or some such -- this is a battle between two groups of people of faith, using the government to establish one sides views -- the EXACT THING that the anti-establishmentarian clause of the Constitution is there to prevent.

Of course no one should "make" those whose faiths oppose gay marriage perform such marriages, and no one ever would. So ministers from the Southern Baptists and Assemblies of God and Ultra-Orthodox Jews and Fundamentalist Muslims should never be asked to perform gay marriages, and certainly not forced to.

On the other hand, why should faith groups that support gay marriage -- such as the United Church of Christ, the Unitarian/Universalist Society, the North American Spiritualist Church, Reform Judaism, and the Correllian Tradition of Wicca -- all recognized Churches and 501c3s be barred from practicing their religious faith, which says it is ok to marry same sex couples?

The first group of faith groups is realistically using the government to prevent the second group of faith groups from practicing what they believe. The founders tried to prevent this, for the stability of the country. It doesn't matter that everyone "thinks" they are right and others are wrong -- it matters that we are plural as a society and the government should recognize everyone's ceremonies the same -- which means that gay marriages committed by churches and faith groups that believe in gay marriages, should be honored by the government regardless of what groups that don't like it say.

Everyone's beliefs can be honored, thus preserving the values that my 12 times removed Great Grandfather died for -- but not if we allow one side to legislate away the rights of the other side.

Regards,

Reynolds Jones
http://www.rebuff.org
[e-mail]

PS In response to the person who answered directly above my answer. Your answer is meaningless of course, if the Bible is not really divine and not the central foundation of Christianity.

The canon of the Bible was not formalized until the Council of Carthage -- when it affirmed a resolution of the synod of Hippo recognizing a group of books drawn together and claimed as divine by Bishop Anathasius. Anathasius did not even coin the word canon until 327 and the Council of Carthage did not formalize the list approved by Hippo until the 390s, and then sent it on to "the Church across the sea" (Rome) for the Pope's approval.

There are no full copies of what is now considered scripture until the 4th century. There are two copies from the 4th century (Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus) together with hundreds of manuscript fragments of various forms (Papyrus and Vellum Manuscripts and Vellum Palimpsests). Overall there are over 5000 copies of at least part of the present canonical Bible that are from the sixth century or earlier. These range from a few verses to whole books, to Bibles that were read in churches. According to Dr. Bart Ehrman, one of the foremost experts in the world on Textual criticism and Textual reconstruction, those manuscripts have between them at least 200,000 differences. Some of those differences are minor, or meaningless -- but some are very important and would change core Christian doctrines like the Virgin birth of our Lord and his divinity -- among others.

One does not need to be an expert to see that the Bible is fiction, and not the Word of God however. Even the American Bible Society explains scriptural accreation as starting with Hebrew tribesmen telling stories around a campfire. That is exactly where the earliest parts of the Bible started -- then it was expanded through midrash and so forth.

Looking at the received texts, the idea of Sola Scriptura becomes evidently ludicrous. The Bible says that the world has corners (Isaiah 11:12) and that it sets on pillars (I Samuel 2:8). It says that God accepted a human sacrifice -- he may have prevented Isaac's, but he allowed a general to sacrifice his own daughter without even a murmur, the text giving tacit support to the idea that having given his word, the man had to kill his child. (Judges 11:30-39). It clearly maintains that genocide is often commanded by God (Joshua 10:40-42 and I Samuel 15: 2, 3 and 8) and that, after killing all the adults in a race, taking the female children as sex slaves is permissible (Numbers 31: 17-18).

The God revealed by the Bible is not only both a liar who doesn't know the natural laws of his own world, and a monster, as shown above -- but he has no real regard, even for his own people, whom he forces into cannibalism (Leviticus 26: 27-29) when he is mad at them; or his priests, whose faces he wipes with dung (Malachi 2:1-3).

It is not only gays and lesbians that are hated by bible-god. This monstrosity also suggests killing kids who eat or drink too much (Deuteronomy 21: 18-21), and says that if he is angry with parents he will kill their children (Leviticus 26:22) and he blames things upon children whose great-great-great grandfathers committed the things being blamed on the kids (Exodus 20: 5).

Putting it in a word, bible-god is a monstrosity, a horrific demiurge of evil. Something that even he admits ( Isaiah 45:7 ) [Furthermore, the word used in Hebrew for evil, the word ra' is widely conceded to mean a number of different things: It can mean "wickedness," "mischief," "bad," "trouble," "hurt," "sore," "affliction," "ill," "adversity," "harm," "grievous," and "sad." So no matter what particular interpretation is given of this word -- it has profoundly negative implications. The idea that god is sovereign over the affairs of man makes this even worse, because no matter what interpretation it has, it indicates that bible-god deliberately does harm.]; evil about which he sometimes changes his mind (Exodus 32:14). What a font of unchanging morality -- that almighty God can decide to kill an entire people, and then be talked out of it by a human servant... Furthermore, it is obvious, if God can change his mind, then even if the Bible were not full of errors and horrors, you could not trust that God had not changed his mind on any other issue in it.

So, yes, I suppose if one wants to take as truth a book that says that beetles have four legs instead of six (Leviticus 11: 21-23) and that rabbits chew their cud [which they do NOT] (Deuteronomy 14:7) and if you are willing to, having accepted it as truth, overlook the fact that bible-god routinely changed his mind (I can show you other instances if you wish) then yeah, I suppose its words would matter and gays are therefore going to hell.

I on the other hand, while a Christian (as in Christ follower) am NOT a literalist, and do not think that a book of bronze age myths owing heavily to the Sumerian and Egyptian mythology in the Old Testament and to a collection of pagan faiths, particularly Mithraism in the New Testament matters at all.

Christianity is centered around love, faith in Christ, and Eucharist. At best the Bible is sacred because of its place in the life of the early church and should be regarded as holy myth -- stress on the myth. And what is a myth? It is fiction.

Answer 2

No it wouldn't solve it. I guess for simply the reasons that you list it makes sense, but the Bible doesn't solely list those reasons. Therefore, the Christian viewpoint would not change. It is still a sin.
But not a sin any worse or better than any other sin. It just seems to be a focus sin. I don't know why. We don't see people out there hooting and hollering about all the straight couples shacking up do we?? Sin is sin. I wish people would quit harping on one group of people over another. It is really unproductive. "They will know we are Christians by our love" "It's God's kindness that leads us to repentance" Hmm, I guess some people don't get those verses.

Answer 3

My question from a scientific side...what great value does homosexuality provide to the human race? Is there any? What is it? What is good for the individual is often not good for the whole, so how does it benefit the whole is the question that needs to be asked? Relate this to your question wouldn't just allowing gay marriage solve all the problems? What is the benefit to the whole? I offered no opinion just more questioning.

Why count me down. Did I say I did not support gay marriage. I only asked more questions. To support anything based on nothing more than a feeling does not provide a sound foundation. Again I ask what is the good for the whole of gay marriage? There is some good in it, Identify what it is. I am asking you to think deeper.

Answer 4

Well one, the bible never said that God doesnt like gays, you are just taking what other christians, who arnt always right, say and bend the words. Two whether or not you are born gay or not, you still know what is right or wrong. It has been proven that murders are born with the agressive gene, but they still know what is right and wrong which is why they are held accountable. Your last question doesnt really make sence to me but think about this. The US makes laws to protect and benifit others, there has been cases where the government has to do things, limit some rights, to keep the US safe. A country needs a fertility rate of 2.11 to remain a country. 1.8 is irreversable meaning that there will be no way to raise it ever. France has a fertility rate of 1.4 and muslims there have a rate of 2.33 the leader of france stated that by 2025 france will be a muslim republic due to the fertility rate. America has a rate of 1.9 but thanks to the emmirgrants we have one of 2.11 the bare minimum. If we allow gays to be married in every state, then very soon our country will be almost half straight marriage and half gay, and our fertility rate will be around 1.2 and we will lose our country. You tell me, she we be able to limit some of their rights to keep our country a country and safe from being taken over, or do we protect their fairness but lose our country? Now tell me how nobel you are to giving free rightst to everyone

Answer 5

Wow! you sure started something with this one didn't you?

I am Christian but I admit I have to give much thought to this and many other religious questions. I am still Christian and I believe God made us thinking persons with emotions, doubts and questions. I do not take the bible totally literally, one can not if they are logical. I still believe Christ died for our salvation.

I think it must be an individual decision regarding your question. God made us all and homosexuals are who they are, it is not a matter of choice regardless of all the talk about a cure, or just be celibate, or choose to be hetero. There have been many marriages that failed because someone tried to be someone they were not!

Answer 6

...I do not wish to offend anyone, but we must deal with the truth - these are serious matters of our time.
...As others have said, passages in the New Testament also prohibit the homosexual lifestyle - read Romans 1, in particular. Also, look at this passage in 1 Corinthians 6:
... 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
...10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
...11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
...As you can see, there are various types of sin here, including homosexuality. SInce it is sin, sin can be forgiven, and therefore there is hope for any homosexual who will turn to Christ and be saved.
...God also condemns adultery, and fornication - Hebrews 13:4 says this, "Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge."
...Last, homosexuality is not a safe lifestyle - most gays go from partner to partner, thus increasing the likelihood of disease. The Centers for Disease Control, which hardly a right-wing group, says that the life-span of the average male homosexual is 41, far below the national average (70-80) for a heterosexual, so how can this be beneficial for our society? The human body just wasn't design for that kind of behavior. Also, homosexuals cannot reproduce - does that say something?
...No one can improve upon God original design for marriage - one man, one woman for life.
...Anyone who is involved in adultery, fornication, or sexual perversions can be forgiven, begin a relationship with God by receiving new life in Christ, and can victory over these sins, and live an abundant life of service to Christ and others.
...I do wish all of you a blessed eternity. I urge you to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and be saved. Acts 16:31
...Whosoever will, may come.

Answer 7

Homosexuality is not acceptable to God because of many scriptures in the bible.
Genesis 2:24 That is why a man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick to his wife and they must become one flesh.
Romans 1:27 and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error
Leviticus 18:22 “‘And you must not lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable thing.
These are just a few . There are many more scriptures that very obviously state that practicing homosexuality is a sin.

Answer 8

Yes, you only hear true hypocrites preaching against same-sex marriage. You know, the ones who say "LGBT never have long-term relationships" and then bar them from having long-term relationships . . . .

Since marriage rights are given by the STATE, such as taxation and adoption, religion should have no say in such matters. This country was founded on the separation of church and state, as attested to by Jefferson's papers of 1802.

I think those who say LGBT people aren't "natural" since they "can't have children" are bigoted and ignorant in two regards -
1) they conveniently ignore the IVF technologies of the last 40 years, and
2) they cruelly slam all infertile couples and those who choose not to have children.

True Christians work for equal rights for all. Hypocrites and mock 'christians' preach bigotry, hatred, discrimination and therefore violence against LGBT people. Which group is acting more like Jesus, you know, the guy who was all about loving one another and treating each other as you would like to be treated?

p.s. Show me all the things that Jesus said against LGBT people. NOT the bigot Paul.

Answer 9

The homophobic interpretation of Christianity by anti-gay bigots allows no room for homosexuals, they are condemned as fornicators if they have sex outside of marriage and gay marriage is condemned and not permitted so there is no option for a homosexual there.
It's probably best to ignore this spiteful religion if you are gay, along with orthodox Judaism and Islam, these are all religions that are now out of context and can only be meaningful in the middle-eastern context and time period where they all originate from and where they truly belong, the ancient past.

Answer 10

Read your bible. A marriage is between a "man" and a "woman." There are no other exceptions. As for homosexuality, it was condemned in both old and new testaments. If you follow the Bible, then these are part of the rules to follow. If you're not a Bible follower, then it should'nt matter.
As for government matters on Earth, Jesus said, "give Caeser his due, and give God his due. If the govt. requires certain things, like obeying certain laws, taxes, etc. then give the govt. their due. Now when it comes to certain conflicts with Gods laws, then Gods laws have priority...that is if you're a Bible follower.
Now if the govt. passes a law allowing gay marriage, then we have to abide by this law, but we don't have to accept it. We give Caesar his due by letting Caesar grant marriages to gays, but because God does'nt approve, we don't have to approve of it. Yet the there are scriptures also that allow the govts. to rule over us and that they are granted this by God ( I think it's Acts 11).
In other words, if Caesar decides to grant gay marriages, that's his business. We can't change that, but we don't have to approve of it. I personally think homosexuality is a sick deviant form of living, but I'm not going to pester and bother homosexuals about my belief. That's their business. Only they have to answer to God in the end about this, provided the Biblical ways are true.

Answer 11

People who want to restrict the rights of homosexuals are not really Christians. So your question, to me, is irrelevant. Jesus taught his followers two things; Love God and love your neighbor. That's it. The freak-shows who hate people because of what they choose to do consentually are only making a mockery of Jesus's teachings by parading around calling themselves Christians. Jesus didn't hate anybody. He was sent for ALL people. It takes true faith to believe that and live by it.