God has God?

Question

Christians have made the claim that Jesus has 2 natures. One man nature, which he took on, and one divine nature which he always had. They claim as a man, he ate, slept and died etc.

They also claim as a man it would be normal for Jesus to say I have a God. Such as in:


John 20: 15-18:

15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. 16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. 18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the LORD, and that he had spoken these things unto her.


Christians have come up with the weak response that this was the man nature of Jesus speaking. For argument sake we will take this response as correct. So we are able to conclude that:

1- Jesus has 2 natures, one divine one human

2- The man nature eats, sleeps, prays and has a God

3- The divine nature does not sleep, pray, or has a God


However so, it may come as a surprise to many people, but however so the supposed divine Jesus also said he has a God!


Revelations 3:12:

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


So as you can see, the divine Jesus still says he has a God! This is not Jesus as man speaking anymore, but this is Jesus as divine speaking, so how can the divine Jesus say I have a God? This clearly proves that there is no such thing as a divine Jesus, and that Jesus is not God since he has a God, even when he is in his supposed divine state.

So I would really love to see a response from the Christians on this. Why does the divine Jesus say I have a God?

Answer 1

Jesus the flesh was that of a man, God did not dwell in Jesus until Jesus was baptized. In Jesus, God pour out his spirit without measure, Meaning all that God is, is now in Jesus, But don't mis-understand this point, Even though God dwell in Christ without measure does not mean that all of God now dwells in Only Jesus & nowhere else, God is everywhere. So that is the Divine side of Jesus. Jesus still has a father, why, Because Jesus with his Bride will rule & reign on this earth for 1000 yrs. that is called the millennium, & after the Millennium Christ comes off his throne in the temple, & after the Great white Throne Judgement, this earth had also been redeemed back to God the Father, The one eternal spirit. Therefore Jesus will not be the redeemer after that, because even this earth is redeemed back to GOD, Then Jesus comes off the throne & becomes our elder brother, & then God will sit on that throne forever world without end & the eternal age.

Answer 2

I'm not a believer in the claims of the NT (I used to be) but I can share how I used to feel about this. To me, the whole concept can be cleared up by learning/studying 2 things.

1) The use of the hebrew word elohim.
2) The angel of Yhwh in the OT.

Elohim, which is usually translated as God, is a problem word for most people. In hebrew, elohim not only refers to God but also to judges and angels. Its more like a class of beings than an actual name. Its like saying "American" there are many Americans but there are those Americans that out rank others in their position like Pres., Vice Pres etc. The same is true for Elohim. There is one that out ranks all Elohiml called Yhwh and then there are other elohim in different positions after him.

Now, if you do study on the angel of Yhwh you will see that when Moses was leading the people through the wilderness Yhwh told him that he was going to send His angel to go before Moses and lead him on the way. Moses was to be careful to observe everything that this angel said because "My Name is in him". That is the key, "my name is in him", this particular angel has Yhwh's name, therefore he can also be called Yhwh. In some Pseudepigriphal writtings he is called the "lesser Yhwh". He is Yhwh's 2nd in command, so to speak. There is another verse where this angel of Yhwh appears to some people (Joshua or Judges cant remember the book right now) and they ask him his name. His response is "why do you ask my name seeing that it is wonderful". This should bring to mind the verse "wonderful, coulselor, mighty elohim (god)....." which in turn eould bring a xtians mind to Jesus.

To me, this is the only way to explain the problems with the man/god issue. There would be no problem calling him god if you understand the definition of elohim. This would make him AN elohim not THE elohim, if you know what I mean. If you accept that he was the angel of Yhwh incarnate then this would also explain the "only begotten son" and "firstborn or creation" titles. There's more but I dont want to put too large of a post out here. Do the study and see what you find.

Answer 3

To touch on
John 20: 15-18:

15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. 16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. 18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the LORD, and that he had spoken these things unto her.

this is misunderstood by many

In this text Jesus is in his role as a preist
You see, In the old testament the priest went in to the Holy of Holys with fear and trembling to make a sacfice for the sins of the people with an offering. The priest would have to wash clean and present this offering to God without any spot or blemish After Jesus resurection His blood was shed for the remission of sin and he was not the be contaminated by the touching of fleshly unsinless mankind. With this said Jesus went in to the holy of holys with the perfect sacraffice his body and blood completely sin less and presented it on behalf of man kind. It can be Proving from the Bible the practice of the sin remission by the priest. now this is why Jesus can not be touch! All that other stuff people say is guessing.

So this make void the second viewing of rev 3 :12

I would not tell what it means But I will tell you that infine is the attribrutes of God so you say God Don't rest nor pray or be the christ than you make God finite Yet God is not finite he is infinite!

Something for you to think about:
Psalm 82:6 -
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
John 10:34-
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Answer 4

I believe in the idea of the Trinity. That God the Father is God above all. Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The Father elevated Jesus to be equal to Himself, Jesus said "All power and authority has been given to me". Jesus did not take this as Satan did, but it was given Him.

Jesus (though being equal with the Father) is obedient to the Father and continues to give the Father the praise and glory.

Answer 5

Listen - they are all three Spirit of God - Father, Son, Holy Spirit - all three Godhead, The Trinity. But they have different purposes and have different forms too - but all same Spirit of God.

Father God - Creator
Jesus Christ - 100% man, 100% God, God incarnate, Savior
Holy Spirit - Comforter, He comes to reside within us at the point of salvation, convicts of sin

Of course Jesus has a Father - His Heavenly Father - God - who was in Heaven while Jesus was on earth. Jesus prayed to God the Father who was in Heaven - but of course Jesus as on earth. I does not take an Einstein to figure this out.

It is like - water, ice, steam - all three water but different also. I pray you can wrap your mind around this. But sometimes it takes spiritual eyes to see spiritual things - when we are in the flesh - we only see fleshly things. Blessings and may you find the Truth - Jesus Christ - the only Way.

Answer 6

God in the Flesh
The concept of God-in-the-flesh heros appear in early Egyptian, Babylonian, and Persian mythologies, then later in Greco-Roman mythologies; until the 2nd century, the notion was foreign to Judaism. Tutankhamun the Egyptian Pharaoh, Gilgamesh the mythological Babylonian king, Mithra the Persian virgin-born God, Heracles (Hercules) the Greek (Roman) demi-god, were each part human and part God. Genesis and Job use the phrase, "sons of God", to refer to angels but do not use "Son of God". The oldest Hebrew reference to a divine human is in the Book of the Watchers (Enoch, Book 1). Enoch recounts in detail the story of the fallen angels, the "Watchers", who mate with earthly women to sire god-like giants. The giants are mortal and their spirits who roam the earth are the primary source of evil. The giants were in no way intended as heroic characters.
The only reference in the Christian Old Testament to "son of God" in singular form is found once in Daniel 3:25, where the author uses the Aramaic phrase "bar elah" ("son of God") while interpreting Nebukhadnetzar's dream. Daniel is a much newer texts and belongs to a tradition of judaism that begins to merge the Enochic tradition with the Zadokite tradition, paving the way for the Essenes and later, the Christians.

The Jesus Idea
After the Greek conquest, the idea of Messiah as earthly deliverer eventually gave way to the idea of spiritual deliverer, as it became more and more clear that the Israelites would not prevail against earthly empires; their fate would not change based on their righteousness or sinfulness. If there were any recompense for righteousness, then it could only be spiritual. At the close of the millennium when helenisms had fully permeated the Judaic world and the Jewish Diaspora was spread throughout the region, the melding of the new spiritual Judaism with the world of the Greco-Roman Gods was inevitable.
Book 2 of Enoch, "Parables", written during this time seems hauntingly Christian in form and content. The the Teacher of Righteousness at Qumran was a healer and revered leader who taught that the end time (eschaton) was at hand, was claimed the Messiah (as were many others during that period, according to Josephus), and was crusified. Middle-eastern Archeology has discovered that Jewish temples during that time, as well as ritualistic implements, were commonly adorned with images of Roman gods. The new helenistic Judaism was starting to take shape.

Equally Man and God
Before the modern canon
The Christian writings were only beginning to attain the status of scripture around 110ce in the writings of church fathers such as Ignatius and Polycarp. Marcion created a Christian canon around 140ce containing only the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament), plus Luke and the writings of Paul. Before the modern canon, some communities held that Jesus was made God at the time of death, others at his birth, others when he taught at the temple as a boy, others at the beginning of time, and still others at his baptism. Still other communities believed he was not man at all, that his human form was only an illusion, a projection. The Gnostic doctrines of Valentinus, Heracleon, Ptolemy, and Marcus did not survive (with the possible exception of the Gospel of Truth" from Nag Hamadi) but are gleaned from the attacks in the orthodox writings.
Formation of the modern canon
Much later at the Council of Nicea (325ce), the emperor, Constantine, ordered that more than 250 prominent Christian bishops throughout his empire meet to reach a compromise regarding the conflicting christologies that were popular at the time. The result would be 50 copies of a single canon to be distributed throughout the empire. This canon was the root of our modern-day canon.
So? Which is it?
Outside the canon
The truth is, there really isn't much about Jesus outside of scripture (including the Apocrypha). Josephus mentions him in a few passages but their authenticity as Josephus's original text is highly suspect (they appear altered by a later redactor). The scripture that did survive the millennia are not representative of the breadth of ideas that were around at the time -- the orthodoxy (the "winners" of the christological debate) were not interested in propagating the ideas of the heretics (the "losers").
Inside the canon
The style and content of the surviving Gospels and Acts bear a stark resemblance to Homeric and Enochic texts. The chronologies and facts of the gospels all too often disagree. Their authors are not known. In brief, their value as historical accounts are suspect. There is simply not much good evidence, either internal or external to the Bible, on which to base a conclusion about who Jesus really was or even whether the stories were compilations of stories about multiple heroic figures. However, a few of the basic christological principals managed to survive in the modern canon: that Jesus is mostly God ...and Jesus is mostly Man

Answer 7

It's religion. It doesn't have to make sense. The whole New Testament is the authors' attempt to rationalize how this Jesus character could be the prophecied "Messiah". Jesus might not have even existed. The stuff written about him was written decades after he supposedly died, so he was already just a story by then.

Answer 8

Still confused? Trinity 101 will answer your question.

Oh wait...you're the person who says there are no stoning executions carried out in Islamic countries. Nevermind. I shouldn't have answered because you ignore the truth and regurgitate the lies stuffed into that melon you call a brain.

Answer 9

look jesus is only a man and a prophet in same time no more,natuer of jesus is a human being created from mother without father,has a body eats,go bathroom,cam marry a girl as any man,how caome this god or son of god go to bathroom?if god created so he is as any one of us so if he died who will manage the creatures needs?who will them? who will cure them?in islam logic and science are providing our religion,and jesus did not died god raised him to sky to save him from gewish who tried to kill him and he will be back to tell all christians that they are wrong and he is alive and he will marry and have kids,he will break the cross and kills the pig and he will fight athiest in the last days of earth age,and he will declare his beleive im prophet mohammad pbuh,prophet of muslims and prays as muslims pray.

Answer 10

All the people here have already spoken for me.LOL @ YOU,you're brain's a melon!!