Are atheists more virtuous than Christians/Muslims, etc?

Question

After a couple of questions I asked last night, it became evident that Christians/religious people pray and worship primarily because they want God to view them as being ‘a good person’, and therefore let them into heaven when they die. (It was established that praying for someone doesn’t actually achieve any benefit from God, as He will treat everybody equally – believer or not). Judgement only comes at death.
So an atheist (or secularist, etc) will go through life being a perfectly good person, on the understanding that they won’t be rewarded for it at the end. Their good behaviour is unconditional.
A Christian/Muslim/any other God-believer however, will expect that they will be ultimately granted a heavenly reward.
Who is the more virtuous?

Please do not quote text, as I am not asking a book. I am asking for your opinion.

To qai5er - how do you argue about homosexuality, which was punishable by death in 'God's word' but is now accepted.

To Swordman - "Other people actively insult God by not believing in Him." ??? It may be argued that Christians actively insult man's intelligence by believing in him. Come on, get off your pompous high horse, suggesting that because YOU believe in something mythical, I am insulting this mythical being by not believing in it too. This is the kind of superior claptrap that drags vulnerable people into religion, and I believe is part of the danger of religion. At least the muslims had an 'offensive' cartoon to accuse us of being insulting. You are accusing atheists of being insulting just because they don't believe the same as you!!!
AND CHRISTIANS WONDER WHY PEOPLE HAVE A 'POP' AT THEM ON THESE PAGES?
Before you accuse me of being insulting to your god, you'd better prove he exists.

Answer 1

So as an 'unbeliver' and being a bloody nice bloke (no trouble with the police, etc) i will get the same benefits if there is a God as all those who've spent their whole lives praying, sitting in cold churches singing crappy hymms and baking cakes for the church fair?

Seems like i'm getting a good deal, if there is a God i win top prize at the Pearly Gates too, and if there isn't (which i suspect) then i haven't completely wasted my life by following something that is utter rubbish.

Makes you wonder why they bother.

Answer 2

Interesting point, however, it must be pointed out that the failure of Christians/Muslims is down to the failure of the individual, not the religion.

As being a good person in society really doesn't reflect on one's beliefs, rather the intricate behaviour of that individual, so we have to assume that all people behave the same (in general) regardless of faith.

God commanded us to have faith and believe in him, and atheists (no matter how good they are in society) have chosen to disregard God. Some people pray to God for rewards, but at least they acknowledge his existence. Other people actively insult God by not beleiving in Him.

The believer is the more virtuous.

Answer 3

Ultimately, Christianity is not moral, nor is Islam. Morality is evaluating a situation and doing the right thing. But in Christianity and Islam, the evaluation was prejudged by (depending on who you ask) a bunch goat *coughers* or God, and the question NOW is to obey or disobey. That's amoral -- neither moral nor immoral.

Atheists, on the otherhand, have no prejudged moral imperatives beyond that which evolution has granted (empathy and altruism). Becuase these are only inclinations, not set rules, they must be interpreted. Therefore, practically every action an atheist takes is viewed morally. The atheist may choose to take the immoral route, BUT, it's still a moral decision.

Answer 4

I agree with you completely. Actions are paramount, but intent is very important. If intent is based on a need for God's (or an abusive parent's) validation, I don't see how it is as pure as the intent of someone who acts for the sole purpose of doing right by our inate moral code. Truly "moral" people do good out of the inner reward and duty to one another, not out of fear of consequence. You can get a child to do anything you want by beating him down, but by beating him, are you building his character and conscience? Religion is dangerous because it replaces inate gifts (conscience, common sense, empathy, etc.) with dependency on Man to interpret the law one should live by.

Religion creates "good citizens," just as the prison system does.

I have no fear of hell's fire because, for 25 years, I heard all the Church had to teach. It was ridiculous, at best. And what God told me is that His Natural Law is not to be discounted by religion. It's all in place and is quite user-friendly. I would like a Christian to prove that God didn't tell me this.

Answer 5

Sometimes fear of god is the only thing that stops a person from creating strife (stealing, lying, etc).

An atheist may be good but at the end of the day he defines what is good. Hence if it becomes "good" in his mind for him to steal he has no reason to stop.

For a religious person good is defined by God and the prophets of god, Moses, Jesus and Mohammed (Peace be upon them). Hence stealing will always be wrong even when society finds it acceptable.

Example: Paedophilia will always be wrong in the eyes of religious people (because it is decreed as wrong by God) but if society eventually finds it acceptable then so will atheists.

Answer 6

The flaw in this is assuming that there are no other types of repercussions. The fact is that everyone is accountable to the laws of society and that these laws (at least the broader concepts such as 'don't kill') are taught to people at a young, impressionable age. Because of this, while theists have two sources of retribution breathing down their backs, everyone has at least one. It can be argued that virtue as you call it also has a component of a deeply imbedded fear of negative consequences. Basically, I don't think there's any reason to say one is more virtuous than the other.

Answer 7

The atheist or secularist makes decisions based on his or her own moral code knowing that nobody else will take responsibility for that action. This also applies to Wickans and to a lesser extent some of the Eastern religions.
Those of a Judea-Christian persuasion are able to opt out of personal responsibility, finding justification for their actions either in the Scriptures or a cleric's teachings. Followers of these religions behave in selfish, cruel, inconsiderate and often irrational ways and when challenged refer to higher religious authorities. This is another manifestation of the 'I was only obeying orders' attempted cop-out.

Answer 8

I`m not religious, but I like to think I`m a good person and have guided my kids along the same path. I`m not working towards any goal at death. To me death just means eternal sleep. I want to be rewarded in this life through family and having other people think highly of me.

Answer 9

The person, whether muslim, christian, buddhist, jew, LDS, or J.W., or atheist, or you, which is "The Least" hypocritical in their thinking, speech, and behavior (actions) IS the most virtuous one !!!

This is my opinion.

Be ready your going to get some really wild answers.

And some will not be able to control themselves. They will quote from their Quran, or bible, or some text of some sort. Whatever it is that they hold as their truth.

Answer 10

An atheist can be a "good" person even if they go around killing people. (As can a Muslim if the people are infidels.) They have no text to set their moral standing. If you're going to get all philosophical then you can't ignore the fact that "good" isn't an objective term.