Why do the jw's teach that the old testament saints are not part of the little flock or annointed class?

Question

So therefore they dont have a heavenly hope.

Answer 1

Prayer is offered to a person in two ways: first, as to be fulfilled by him, secondly, as to be obtained through him. On the first way we offer prayer to God alone, since all our prayers ought to be directed to the acquisition of grace and glory, which God alone gives, according to Psalm 83:12, "The Lord will give grace and glory." But in the second way we pray to the saints, whether angels or men, not that God may through them know our petitions, but that our prayers may be effective through their prayers and merits. Hence it is written (Apocalypse 8:4) that "the smoke of the incense," namely "the prayers of the saints ascended up before God." This is also clear from the very style employed by the Church in praying: since we beseech the Blessed Trinity "to have mercy on us," while we ask any of the saints "to pray for us."

Many Christians begin to learn about the Trinity through knowledge of Baptism. This is also a starting point for others in comprehending why the doctrine matters to so many Christians, even though the doctrine itself teaches that the being of God is beyond complete comprehension. The Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed are structured around profession of the Trinity, and are solemnly professed by converts to Christianity when they receive baptism, and in the Church's liturgy, particularly when celebrating the Eucharist. One or both of these creeds are often used as brief summations of Christian faith by mainstream denominations.

One God
God is one, and the Godhead a single being: The Hebrew Scriptures lift this one article of faith above others, and surround it with stern warnings against departure from this central issue of faith, and of faithfulness to the covenant God had made with them. "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD" (Deuteronomy 6:4) (the Shema), "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" (Deuteronomy 5:7) and, "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel and his redeemer the LORD of hosts: I am the first and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6). Any formulation of an article of faith which does not insist that God is solitary, that divides worship between God and any other, or that imagines God coming into existence rather than being God eternally, is not capable of directing people toward the knowledge of God, according to the trinitarian understanding of the Old Testament. The same insistence is found in the New Testament: "...there is none other God but one" (1 Corinthians 8:4). The "other gods" warned against are therefore not gods at all, but substitutes for God, and so are, according to St. Paul, simply mythological or are demons.

So, in the trinitarian view, the common conception which thinks of the Father and Christ as two separate beings, is incorrect. The central, and crucial affirmation of Christian faith is that there is one savior, God, and one salvation, manifest in Jesus Christ, to which there is access only because of the Holy Spirit. The God of the Old is still the same as the God of the New. In Christianity, it is understood that statements about a solitary god are intended to distinguish the Hebraic understanding from the polytheistic view, which see divine power as shared by several separate beings, beings which can, and do, disagree and have conflicts with each other. The concept of Many comprising One is quite visible in the Gospel of John, chapter 17, verses 20 through 23.

God exists in three persons

The "Shield of the Trinity" or "Scutum Fidei" diagram of traditional Western Christian symbolism.This one God however exists in three persons, or in the Greek hypostases. God has but a single divine nature. Chalcedonians — Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants — hold that, in addition, the Second Person of the Trinity — God the Son, Jesus — assumed human nature, so that he has two natures (and hence two wills), and is really and fully both true God and true human.


The singleness of God's being and the multiplicity of the Divine Persons together account for the nature of Christian salvation, and disclose the gift of eternal life. "Through the Son we have access to the Father in one Spirit" (Ephesians 2:18). Communion with the Father is the goal of the Christian faith and is eternal life. It is given to humans through the Divine union with humanity in Jesus Christ who, although fully God, died for sinners "in the flesh" to accomplish their redemption, and this forgiveness, restoration, and friendship with God is made accessible through the gift to the Church of the Holy Spirit, who, being God, knows the Divine Essence intimately and leads and empowers the Christian to fulfill the will of God. Thus, this doctrine touches on every aspect of the trinitarian Christian's faith and life; and this explains why it has been so earnestly contended for, throughout Christian history.

Answer 2

Simon T:

John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

So Jesus says Elijah wasn't taken to "heaven"

Heaven is also where the birds fly.

If you keep reading you will find that Elijah was taken from the 10 tribe kingdom to Judah.

Elisha actually received a letter from Elijah from there. (Sorry I can't reference the scripture at this time)


- Edit - 2 Chronicles 21:12 (found it) - Edit


Hebrews 11: 13-16 The Kingdom is in the heavens, which is God's government.

Isa 9: 6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
7There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace,
On the throne of David and over his kingdom,
To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness
From then on and forevermore
The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.


Jesus explained that John the Baptist (because he died prior to Jesus) didn't have a heavenly hope either.

Matt 11:11"Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist! Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Matt 8:11, & Luke 13:28 Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are symbolic of fleshly Israel who lost the honor of being Kings and Priests with Jesus.

1 Pet 2:8-10

Also read Acts 2:34 concerning David.

Answer 3

Correct if i am wrong but,

Hebrews11:13-16
But now they are reaching out for a better [place], that is, one belonging to "heaven".

2Kings2:1
And it came about that when Jehovah was to take Elijah in a windstorm up to the "heavens".

2Kings2:11
And it came about that as they were walking along, speaking as they were walked, why, look! a fiery war chariot and fiery horses, and they proceeded to make a seperation between them both: and Elijah went ascending in the windstorm to the "heavens".

Matthew8:11
But i tell you that many from the eastern parts and western parts will come to recline at the table with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of the "Heavens".

Luke 13:28
There is where [your] weeeping and the gnashing of [your] teeth will be, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the Kingdom of God(, but your selves thrown outside. ("The kingdom of God is Heaven")

How do jw's reconcile the watchtower teaching that Old testament saints look forward to an earthly destiny with the scripture evidence that says Abragam, Isaac, Jacob, the prophets, and Old testament saints will be with God in "Heaven"?

Look like there is a Contradiction here.

Answer 4

I don't think they do, I might be wrong but I think they include them.

Answer 5

deceived