which teaching do you find to be truth?
The Watchtower Teaching. The New World Translation renders
Revelation 3:14, “And to the angel of the congregation in Laodicea write: These
are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the
creation by God” (italics added). Jehovah’s Witnesses cite this verse to prove that
Reasoning from the Scriptures with the Jehovah’s Witnesses —Chapter 5
137
Jesus is a created being. Indeed, Jesus was “the first of Jehovah-God’s creations.”1
Jehovah’s Witnesses relate this verse to passages like John 1:14 where we are told
that Jesus is the “only begotten” of the Father.2
In support of this interpretation, the Watchtower publication Should You
Believe in the Trinity? states: “‘Beginning’ [Greek: arche] cannot rightly be
interpreted to mean that Jesus was the ‘beginner’ of God’s creation. In his Bible writings, John uses various forms of the Greek word arche more than 20 times, and
these always have the common meaning of ‘beginning.’ Yes, Jesus was created by
God as the beginning of God’s invisible creations.”3
2006-11-06
10:54:41
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19 answers
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asked by
Prodical Son
1
in
Society & Culture
➔ Religion & Spirituality
The Biblical Teaching. In responding to the Watchtower’s interpretation of
this verse, it is critical to note that there is a wide range of meanings for the Greek
word arche, translated “beginning” in the New World Translation. Though arche
can mean “beginning,” the word is truly unique and also carries the important
active meaning of “one who begins,” “origin,” “source,” “creator,” or “first cause.”
Evangelical scholars agree that this is the intended meaning of the word in
Revelation 3:14.4
The authoritative Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other
Early Christian Literature by William Arndt and F. Wilbur Gingrich says the
meaning of arche in Revelation 3:14 is “first cause.”5 Indeed, in Revelation 3:14,
2006-11-06
10:55:49 ·
update #1
arche is used to refer to “the active beginning of the creation, the One who caused
the creation, referring to Jesus Christ not as a created being, but the One who
created all things (John 1:3).”6
A brief perusal of some of today’s translations reflects this meaning of the
word:
• The Jerusalem Bible translates arche in Revelation 3:14 as “the
ultimate source” (of God’s creation).
The New English Bible translates arche as “the prime source” (of
God’s creation).
• Barclay’s translation renders arche as “the moving cause” (of God’s
creation).
• Knox’s version translates arche as “the source” (of God’s creation).
• Both William’s and Goodspeed’s translations render arche as “the
beginner” (of God’s creation).
It is worth noting that the English word architect is derived from arche. We
might say that Jesus is the architect of all creation (John 1:3; Col. 1:16; Heb. 1:2).
2006-11-06
10:57:00 ·
update #2
Commenting on this verse, Greek exegete Henry Alford states that in Christ “the
whole creation of God is begun and conditioned; He is its source and primary
fountainhead.”7
It is also noteworthy that the only other three times arche is used in the Book
of Revelation, it is used of God as “the beginning and the end” (Rev. 1:8; 21:6;
22:13).8 Certainly the use of arche with God Almighty does not mean that He had
a created beginning. Instead, these verses communicate the idea that God is both
the beginner and the consummation of creation. He is the first cause of creation;
He is its final goal.9 The word arche is used in the same sense in Revelation 3:14.
Christ is the beginner of God’s creation (cf. John 1:3; Heb. 1:2; Col. 1:16).
2006-11-06
10:57:55 ·
update #3
• Since the use of arche with God Almighty does not mean that He
had a created beginning (Rev. 1:8; 21:6; 22:13), why go against
John’s usage in Revelation and insist that when used of Christ
arche indicates a created beginning?Now, we should note that another possible meaning of arche is “ruler” or
“magistrate.” In support of this interpretation is the fact that when arche is used of
a person in Scripture, it is almost always used of a ruler.
2006-11-06
11:00:40 ·
update #4
If “ruler” is the correct meaning for arche in Revelation 3:14, then it means
that Christ has authority over all creation. This meaning is reflected in the New
International Version where we read that Christ is the “ruler of God’s creation”
(Rev. 3:14).
2006-11-06
11:01:43 ·
update #5
In my opinion JW's have a warped view of the teachings and manipulate them to their own end. This is not a question (not that I could be bothered to read all of it anyway!) its a rant.
2006-11-06 10:59:24
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answer #1
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answered by huggz 7
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Rev. 3:14 is one of the JW's favourites, in their attempt to prove that Jesus Christ is a mere created being, the first angel that Jehovah made. He is the beginning of the creation and that God the Father is the speaker of Revelation 21:6 and 22:13, yet in both verses he calls himself '"the beginning." Therefore "the beginning" must mean something else other than the first thing created. Actually, in each of these cases, the Greek text say arche, a word listed in Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words as having such varied meanings as "beginning," "power'" "magistrate," and "ruler." The Watchtower Bible translates the plural of the same word as "government officials" at Luke 12:11. It is the root of our words archbishop, architect, and other words referring to someone who is chief over others. Thus, the New International Version at Revelation 3:14 says that Christ is "the ruler of God's creation, "So there is no basis for claiming that Revelation 3:14 makes Jesus Christ a created being. See also Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1; John 20:28.
2006-11-06 11:16:17
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answer #2
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answered by charmaine f 5
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Arche – is defined in Strong’s dictionary as
commencement, or (concrete) chief (in various applications of order, time, place or rank): - beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule.
KJ version for example translated arche mostly as beginning, few as principality, magistrate, etc. (Heb 1:10, John 1:1 ). It is true that when you use this word to God “arche” that it doesn’t mean that God is created. Beginning and beginner are two different words with different meanings. Beginning (arche) are totally different from source, creator (Greek ktizo), origin. These words are different than arkhe.
Please also notice that when God is called the beginning and the end , the arche is not qualified. When arche is used to describe Jesus in Rev 3:14 it has the qualifier “of the CREATION OF/BY GOD”. In short, Jesus is “OF THE CREATION By GOD, he is the beginning”. Notice that Jesus, the beginning/ruler, is STILL PART OF theCREATION BY GOD. Of God’s creation, Jesus is the beginning/ruler. This is in harmony with a lot of texts which shows that Jesus is the beginning of God’s creation and that Jesus’ source of life is his Father. (Prov 8, Col 1:15, John 5:26)
Jehovah is not describe anywhere in the Scriptures as the beginning OF GOD’S CREATION, only THE BEGINNING & THE END.
2006-11-07 02:12:27
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answer #3
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answered by trustdell1 3
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The Bible so adamantly teaches that Jesus is God's Son. You can reason this way...in human terms, the father and the son are always two separate individuals, likewise the Father and Son, God and Jesus are two separate individuals also, not the same and not equal. The Father begot the Son. Why would Jesus pray to the Father in heaven if he himself was God? Why would he say he would do his Father's will, not his? Why would he not know what God knew if he were God? Why would he say the Father is greater than he is? Why would the Bible keep stressing that Jesus is God's Son? How can this just be ignored?
Here are the Scriptures (or some of them) that support this:
John 14:28: "YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am."
Matthew 24:36: "Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father."
Luke 22:41 & 42: " And he himself drew away from them about a stone’s throw, and bent his knees and began to pray, 42 saying: “Father, if you wish, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let, not my will, but yours take place.”
Matthew 3: 16 & 17: "After being baptized Jesus immediately came up from the water; and, look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw descending like a dove God’s spirit coming upon him. 17 Look! Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”
And of course, John 3:16: " “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."
In the 8th chapter of Proverbs Jesus calls himself the master worker, and in the 1st chapter of Colossians it is said that all other things were created for him and through him, so there is no debate that Jesus did acts of creation. He was the only being directly created by God...his Father.
2006-11-06 11:28:04
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answer #4
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answered by wannaknow 5
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One thing is that you dont know your Greek, and another you dont know the whole of scripture. There are many verses that prove that Jesus Christ is the One True God, more than you will acknowledge. However, The covenant that God made with Abraham will suffice for now. When Abraham cut apart the pieces and waited for God to come down to walk with him through the pieces to ratify the covenant that God made with him. And Abraham fell into a deep sleep and saw a smoking fire pot and a blazing torch walked through the pieces - note Abraham didn't only God did. Thus he was saying Abraham if I or you break this covenant I alone will pay with blood!
The terms that you are using describe Jesus' eternalness and His relationship with God as the "ONLY BEGOTTEN" of the father, it is not a creation term it is a relational one!
Besides this if Jesus was not God, YHWH, you are still in your sins, God is a liar and you have no God! For the scriptures say that He is the Branch of the LORD. He is the First and the Last, He is the I AM that I AM, the Jews understood it when Jesus used this term to describe Himself, they wanted to stone Him for blasphemey! They understood why cant you?
Why because of unbelief.
I have dealt with your kind in the past, and you have no hope in the resurrection, no life, no savior, no God.
2006-11-06 11:12:31
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answer #5
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answered by ? 7
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As you know all verses have to be taken in context of the surrounding verses.
Most bibles at Rev 3:14 use "the beginning of the creation of God"
but as you know this doesn't make the translation right. Look how most bibles mistranslate John 1:1.
Most of my bible cross reference Rev 3:14 to Prov 8:22, 30 which also say that Jesus was created. (NASB, Amplified, KJV)
So what is the context of Rev 3:14 that will help us know if the Greek word is properly translated as beginning, or ruler (NIV)
(Please note that ruler in this verse is scripturally correct, because Jehovah has appointed Jesus to be the King or Ruler over His creation. So even if you are correct in your understanding it still shows that Jesus is in subjection to his Father.)
The context of Rev 3:14 has to agree with Rev 3:12, Which says: "12 Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God (NIV)
Jesus is telling us that if we remain faithful we will be rewarded by his God,
Jesus worships God, and wants us to worship his God, why because as verse 14 says, Jesus is
"These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; " (NASB)
is the faithful and true witness to his Father, Jehovah.
Edit =====
With the context of vs 12, "Source" can not be the correct word for vs 14.
fast in english means to
1. move quickly, Rabbits can run fast.
2. not move at all, the cargo was held fast.
3. to stop eatting for a period of time.
Joe is on a fast.
You know which meaning of the word to use by the context of the sentence.
"The fox ran fast while the rabbit held fast, which ended the fast of the fox."
Since vs 12 shows that God is above Jesus, then Jesus is not the source of creation, but is the beginning of creation.
2006-11-07 02:26:54
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answer #6
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answered by TeeM 7
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Jesus wit, Jehovah's Witnesses twist certain verses to make their bible fit their religious cult. John Chapter 1:1 says that "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. So basically it is saying that since Jesus is the Word, he is also God.
Not only that, in Hebrews and in Genesis it states that Jesus is the Lord of all creation, and all of creation is going to be his footstool.
2006-11-06 11:16:57
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answer #7
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answered by Anonymous
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Reading from the K.J.V.,"In the beginning was the Word,and the Word was with God,and the Word was God"-John1:1 It goes on to say that there was a man named John who was not the Light, but came to bear whitness of the Light. It then says''He was in the world,and the world was made by him,and the world knew him not."-John 1:10 "And the Wordwas made flesh,and dwelt among us,(and we beheld his glory ,the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)full of grace and truth."-John1:14..........It is my interpretation that Jesus was with God "in the beginning " and created the cosmos. This is very debatable.
2006-11-06 11:46:07
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answer #8
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answered by TREBOR 2
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Arche also means chief or head. Like in "archangel..." which means chief angel. Jesus is the head (arche) over all creation.
John says that Jesus created all things...nothing was created without Him doing it (St. John 1:1-3).
It is true that JWs add words in John 1 and Colossians to try to prove that Jesus was created. If you add words, you can prove anything! Wake up! before it's too late!
2006-11-06 11:03:50
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answer #9
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answered by mediocritis 3
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This so-called "question" is quite disjointed and confused, and so it is difficult to answer succinctly.
Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus was the 'master worker' who created the angels and the physical universe, so this lengthy argument seems very very odd.
(Proverbs 8:30) I [Jesus] came to be beside him [Jehovah] as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day
Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Scriptures alone quite plainly demonstrate that Jesus and the Almighty are separate distinct persons, and the Almighty created Jesus as His firstborn son.
(Colossians 1:15) the firstborn of all creation
(Mark 10:18) Jesus said to him: 'Why do you call me good? Nobody is good, except one, God.
(Revelation 3:14) the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God
(Philippians 2:5-6) Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God's form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God
(John 8:42) Neither have I come of my own initiative at all, but that One sent me forth
(John 12:49) I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak
(John 14:28) I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am
(1 Corinthians 15:28) But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him
(Matthew 20:23) this sitting down at my right hand and at my left is not mine to give, but it belongs to those for whom it has been prepared by my Father
(1 Corinthians 11:3) I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; ...in turn the head of the Christ is God
(John 20:17) I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.
(Deuteronomy 6:4) Jehovah our God is one Jehovah
(1 Corinthians 8:4-6) There is no God but one. For even though there are those who are called "gods," whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many "gods" and many "lords," there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him
Learn more!
http://watchtower.org/library/ti/index.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/ti/
2006-11-07 14:11:11
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answer #10
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answered by achtung_heiss 7
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to answer, I ask if the Spirit of God was a creation. Trinitarian belief puts the Spirit on the same level as the Son. I am of monotheist belief (There is one Lord - Eph 4:5). You find in Genesis 1 that the Spirit was there in the beginning vice created as a replacement for the crucified Son. The problem is we put God in a box of physical boundaries such as the world we know. But God is a Spirit and has shown Himself in many manifestations: the burning bush, the pillar of fire, Jesus Christ, etc. Remember His response to Peter "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father" Jesus was not created. He is God.
In response to the typical questions that follow, His behavior in flesh was the appropriate example for man to follow. He was flesh of man at the time. But this time the flesh would remain untainted and rise.
Hope this helps.
2006-11-06 11:11:46
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answer #11
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answered by litesoul2 1
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