P.As an atheist,?

Question

we might claim that morals have utility in maintaining a society. But, as atheists, we can also say that morals are man made and therefore arbitrary. If this it true, then why would one want to submit to anyone else’s morals when there is no justification of someone else’s morals being equal to or better than any other’s?
Q.As a logical atheist then, should I not strive to be in a position of authority which will allow me to form an environment where those around me are subject to my own moral constructs, thereby guaranteeing that the moral fabric of my society does not deteriorate beyond that of my own morals?

Answer 1

what makes you think your morals are acceptable

Answer 2

With all due respect, your question is somewhat muddled. Therefore, let me try to answer it in my own muddled way.

You're quite correct, the value of morality is social utility. But please understand, that is itself an unprovable value assertion. Consider the following proposition: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

As both G. E. Moore and C. S. Lewis pointed out, you will never be able to ascertain this proposititon, either logically or empirically. As Lewis said (and I'm paraphrasing) statement in the indicative mood can never justify claims in the imperative mood. For Moore, the attempt was the meaning of what he called the "Naturalistic Fallacy." (The attempt to derive moral "oughts" from empirical an "is." ).

Every time we express a moral claim, we are asserting the superiority of a prior position. Why should we do unto others? It's a rational question, correct? Well, maybe we should do unto others because it will make for a more peaceful world. But why is a more peaceful world a better place?

What I hope you can see is that you can play this game of regression "ad infinitum." I don't care what you say is "Good." I can always ask, "Why is it good?" Eventually though, you must reach a point at which something becomes a valid moral claim -- NOT because it leans on something else -- but rather because it IS the essense of rationality ITSELF. It neither asks for, nor admits to proof -- IT IS. It is, in fact, moral "IS-NESS" itself. These are the First Principles. They cannot be proven because there is nothing "behind" them. They just are.

This is the heart of Plato's Theory of Forms. It is also the essense of the ancient Greek concept of "Arete," which itself is derived from the ancient Sanskrit word, "Rta."

Oddly enough, there's a fascinating Sanskrit verse in the Upanishads. "The gods themselves are born of the Rta, and they obey it." What is this Rta that gives rise to gods, and which the gods themselves obey? What is this Arete that gives rise to all form and truth?

I'll leave you to speculate.

Cheers,mate.

Answer 3

The proof is in the pudding as they say. Societies follow moral codes that work to make them more efficient. If the morals fail then that society fails. Logic and reason have little to do with it. Business and trade require a different set of morals than banditry. Even though both require co-operation it has different values and operators for example. Inter tribal business requires inter tribal co-operation of the justice system as opposed to simple tribal justice that regards non-tribe as fair prey. This continues up past the level of Nations in today's world and has never been dealt with properly. That is why all Empires have crashed. There is no moral structure in place to deal with power concentrated to that degree. Tribal or Nationalistic moral codes of behavior don't work at that level. Your personal and private morals should be viewed in how well they serve you as a functional member of your society. You should be doing what you can to improve the morals of your society, to improve the odds of you, your children and your clade surviving into the future.

Answer 4

Atheist or not, we want to live. Over time, we've found it best to maintain a certain amount of order through rules when there's a large group of us occupying the same ground. So it's in our best interests as a human being who wants to live and pro-create to stay alive.

Sure, you can strive to be in a position of authority but I think you'll find that the group you're trying to organize and keep moral kind of has a personality of its own and will do things despite your best efforts that you don't like.

Answer 5

Although Western morals appear to be based on Christian doctrine, can you not agree that those doctrine were written based on morals held before Christianity? Assuming that you believe that the Bible was written by man, and not by a god, don't you agree that the basic ideas and principals of morality already were in existence long before the Bible (or any other religious text) was written down?

Answer 6

Morals are not arbitrary from an atheists point of view, some of the religious commandments sure are though.

Answer 7

Goodness and mercy are not arbitrary, if you know what I mean.
(I'm a saint and I'm holy, having been sainted by Pope Constance of Durango, Colorado, so I can tell you about morals and goodness.)
Whether you believe in God or not, goodness and mercy are not arbitrary. Moreover, if there were no god, people would still believe in God; that's just a basic fact of human nature. So there.

Please don't try to explain away goodness. As long as humankind exists there will be goodness and there will be badness, okay? Does that answer your question?

Answer 8

You can no more guarantee the moral fabric of a society based on your personal moral opinion any more that you can guarantee that you won't die tonight.

You are ultimately powerless and weak and if you try to impose your moral standard on your fellow atheists they will most likely crucify you. It seems that they're into that sort of thing.

Answer 9

In theory, I agree. In practice, I think some of the moral values in society are good and worth following.

Answer 10

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Answer 11

Depends on what your morals are.

If you are opposed to killing because it is wrong, then yes I will gladly follow your morals.

If you are opposed to gay marriage because of tradition, then no I will not follow your morals on the grounds that you are homophobic and closeminded.

What are your morals?