Jesus is created acc to Prov 8, What do you think?

Question

PROVERBS 8:22: - 22 “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago . The Hebrew word for produced/possessed (qanah – Strongs’ dictionary defines it as “erect, that is, create”.
Is the wisdom talked about in Prov 8 the LITERAL wisdom of God. No, because God has always wisdom. God’s wisdom has no beginning. If this is not the literal wisdom then it is the FIGURATIVE Wisdom. 1 Cor 1:24 states that “, Christ the power of God and the WISDOM of God.” So the Bible tells us that Jesus is the Wisdom of God, therefore we can relate that to Prov 8.
Prov 8:22 & 24 used the words produced/created (qanah) & brought forth/formed (chul See Deut 32:18) . These words describe that the figurative Wisdom of God (Christ) was CREATED/FORMED.

Well, one might say, the word “Wisdom” used in Prov 8 is in feminine form, therefore it can’t be Jesus. As I’ve said, the word “wisdom” in Prov 8 is figurative not the literal “wisdom” of God. 1 Pet 2:8 called Jesus the rock-mass (Greek petra which is also in feminine form), that doesn’t mean that Jesus is a woman.

When God says "we" or "us" he is talking to his Son, Jesus. Prov 8 description of wisdom CANNOT be the literal wisdom because God has that all the time and has no beginning.

The first person "I" or "Me" in Prov 8 cannot be King Solomon himself because the one described as wisdom was there in the beginning, from times earlier than the earth.

Isaiah 44:24 states " “I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the earth." Yes, I noticed it said MYSELF. Notice if the Trinity doctrine is true, it should have said OURSELVES, because God according to Trinitarians is composed of THREE persons. So there's only one creator, Jehovah God, The Father, OUT of whom ALL THINGS are. He is the SOURCE. (See 1 COr 8:6), Jesus was used only as an instrument for creation but the one doing the works is the Father. (THROUGH whom all things are). Remember Jesus CANNOT do anything of his own (John 5:19) John 14:10 states that the FATHER does the WORKS when he uses Jesus. So it is Jehovah ALONE who is the Creator

Trinitarians add a lot of terms which are not found in the Bible, like the phrases "God-Man", "God the Son", "God the Holy Spirit" "God incarnate" and so on. Notice the Bible uses the phrase "God the Father", but NOT the other two, why do you think?

I believe in Jesus, the Son of God, the Father Jehovah and his active force (a part of God, not a separate person, finger Luk 11:20), the holy spirit.

When the Bible uses the word "creator" (Ecc 12:1, Isa 40:28) it is SINGULAR not CREATORS, and uses singular verbs and pronouns (he, him, is) . There is only one creator, for Trinitarians, the Father is the Creator, the Son is the Creator, and the holy spirit is the Creator. Three personS, three creatorS, which conflict with the Bible which states only one CREATOR (singular).

Answer 1

Throughout the Scriptures Jehovah God is identified as the Creator. He is "the Creator of the heavens, . . . the Former of the earth and the Maker of it." (Isa 45:18) He is "the Former of the mountains and the Creator of the wind" (Am 4:13) and is "the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all the things in them." (Ac 4:24; 14:15; 17:24) "God . . . created all things." (Eph 3:9) Jesus Christ recognized Jehovah as the One who created humans, making them male and female. (Mt 19:4; Mr 10:6) Hence, Jehovah is fittingly and uniquely called "the Creator."-Isa 40:28.

It is because of God's will that all things "existed and were created." (Re 4:11) Jehovah, who has existed for all time, was alone before creation had a beginning.-Ps 90:1, 2; 1Ti 1:17.

While Jehovah, who is a Spirit (Joh 4:24; 2Co 3:17), has always existed, that is not true of the matter of which the universe is made. Hence, when creating the literal heavens and earth, Jehovah did not use preexistent material. This is clear from Genesis 1:1, which says: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." If matter had always existed, it would have been inappropriate to use the term "beginning" with reference to material things. However, after creating the earth, God did form "from the ground every wild beast of the field and every flying creature of the heavens." (Ge 2:19) He also formed man "out of dust from the ground," blowing into his nostrils the breath of life so that the man became a living soul.-Ge 2:7.

Appropriately Psalm 33:6 says: "By the word of Jehovah the heavens themselves were made, and by the spirit of his mouth all their army." While the earth was yet "formless and waste," with "darkness upon the surface of the watery deep," it was God's active force that was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters. (Ge 1:2) Thus, God used his active force, or "spirit" (Heb., ru´ach), to accomplish his creative purpose. The things he has created testify not only to his power but also to his Godship. (Jer 10:12; Ro 1:19, 20) And, as Jehovah "is a God, not of disorder, but of peace" (1Co 14:33), his creative work is marked with orderliness rather than chaos or chance. Jehovah reminded Job that He had taken specific steps in founding the earth and barricading the sea and indicated that there exist "statutes of the heavens." (Job 38:1, 4-11, 31-33) Furthermore, God's creative and other works are perfect.-De 32:4; Ec 3:14.

Jehovah's first creation was his "only-begotten Son" (Joh 3:16), "the beginning of the creation by God." (Re 3:14) This one, "the firstborn of all creation," was used by Jehovah in creating all other things, those in the heavens and those upon the earth, "the things visible and the things invisible." (Col 1:15-17) John's inspired testimony concerning this Son, the Word, is that "all things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence," and the apostle identifies the Word as Jesus Christ, who had become flesh. (Joh 1:1-4, 10, 14, 17) As wisdom personified, this One is represented as saying, "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way," and he tells of his association with God the Creator as Jehovah's "master worker." (Pr 8:12, 22-31) In view of the close association of Jehovah and his only-begotten Son in creative activity and because that Son is "the image of the invisible God" (Col 1:15; 2Co 4:4), it was evidently to His only-begotten Son and master worker that Jehovah spoke in saying, "Let us make man in our image."-Ge 1:26.

After creating his only-begotten Son, Jehovah used him in bringing the heavenly angels into existence. This preceded the founding of the earth, as Jehovah revealed when questioning Job and asking him: "Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth . . . when the morning stars joyfully cried out together, and all the sons of God began shouting in applause?" (Job 38:4-7) It was after the creation of these heavenly spirit creatures that the material heavens and earth and all elements were made, or brought into existence. And, since Jehovah is the one primarily responsible for all this creative work, it is ascribed to him.-Ne 9:6; Ps 136:1, 5-9.

The Scriptures, in stating, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" (Ge 1:1), leave matters indefinite as to time. This use of the term "beginning" is therefore unassailable, regardless of the age scientists may seek to attach to the earthly globe and to the various planets and other heavenly bodies. The actual time of creation of the material heavens and earth may have been billions of years ago.

Answer 2

well, if I remember correctly , you also hold to the idea that not only was Jesus created, but that He created all things . Correct ? Then how do you explain Isaiah 44:24? I , the Lord , am the maker of ALL things ,stretching out the heavens BY MYSELF, and spreading out the Earth ALL ALONE . That says that Jehovah only, is the creator . right ? But the apostle Paul in Colossians 1 :16,17 affirms that by Christ " ALL things were created : things in heaven and on Earth , visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities: ALL THINGS were created by him and for him . This little phrase " all things" means that Christ created the whole universe of THINGS . note in verses 16-20 that Paul mentions ALL CREATION,ALL THINGS ,and EVERYTHING . There is no doubt that the Old testament presents God ALONE as creator of ALL THINGS . colossians 17 says Christ is before ALL THINGS ,and this phrase " before all things" indicates that Christ existed before all things in a point of time .

You have been misinformed concerning the " trinty " .. God is NOT 3 persons . There is only one God . No trinitarian bases his belief in the trinity on a single verse, but rather on the acumulatative eveidence of the whole scripture. For instanse ,lets take Matt 3:16,17 . . It does not in itself prove the doctrine of the trinity, it supports it . Scripture always supports scripture .


If we take proverbs 8:22 as to speak literally about Christ ,we must also assume that Christ is a woman that cries in the streets 1 :20,21, and who lives with someone named Prudence in 8:12, and in a home with 7 pillars in 9:1 .If wisdom in Proverbs 8 had a beginning ,then doesn't this mean that God did not have wisdom until a certain point when He aquired it ? What kind of " God " is that ?

And true , trinity is not a word found in the Bible, but neither is theocracy ..<

Answer 3

You are twisting the Scriptures to what you want them to say. Jesus was/is God incarnate. He was with God in the beginning. Jesus, God, Holy Spirit - all three Spirit of God - all three Godhead. They do have different purposes though. God the Father, Creator. Jesus Christ, God incarnate, Savior. Holy Spirit, Comforter, God within us when we receive the free gift of salvation. Jesus was not a created being - He was/is God. The angels are created beings but Jesus is the Great I AM.

Answer 4

Well, yes, he was created by Jehovah God. He is called the firstborn of all creation( Colossians 1:15 & 16); the only-begotten Son(John 3:16). Yes, Proverbs 8 is speaking of Jesus, the master worker... I am in agreement.

Answer 5

According to the cross references in my
NASB, RSB, Amplified, KJV, Bibles all reference Prov 8:22-30 with Rev 3:14, which is Jesus.

So I would have to say yes.

Answer 6

You are correct. Jesus was created. In fact, he was the first spirit being God created as seen at COLOSSIANS 1:15--"who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation"
Trinitarians are always looking for ways to make God a mystery. They forget that God cannot be tempted (" Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempteth no man."--JAMES 1:13)
Yet, Jesus was tempted (" For we have not a high priest (Jesus) that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but one that hath been in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."
God is immortal and cannot die (" Before the mountains were brought forth, Or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God."--PSALM 90:2
and also --" who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen."--1 TIMOTHY 6:16)
Jesus did physically die--he had to, in order to get back for us what Adam lost.

Answer 7

All scripture from Gen 3:16 thru Rev 22:21 relates to Jesus.

Either directly or indirectly, it is pointing us to Him.

Answer 8

Wisdom personified claims credit for everything that God created, so that wisdom was first, as God was eternally first. Christ used His eternal wisdom in creation.

Answer 9

When God created man he said Let US make man in OUR image. Jesus was there from the beginning.

Answer 10

If your question is "What do I think?" I think you need to read Genesis over again. There you will see God refering to "we" and "us". Jesus was never "created" he always was because He IS God. The scriptures you use are talking about wisdom, not Christ.