Why teach that humans have free will when the Bible stresses that free will does not exist?

Question

From the site: http://www.gotquestions.org/Heaven-perfect.html

This statement is rather telling: "If some of our loved ones are not in Heaven, we will be in 100% complete agreement that they do not belong there."

This is in direct violation of the notion of free will, which is often a part of Christian teachings.

Since the Bible nullifies the concept of free will, why bother teaching it to people? Besides, it's not like free will is actually a good thing, so I'm not sure why some people claim that it is.

So far, no one has demonstrated why free will is a good thing (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Atv.7NXeFCM6KInc7KRNxwzsy6IX?qid=20060822102610AAHeIO7 )

The Bible also says that our faith is determined only by God and not by ourselves (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ary7P1WUVB2mL1kFaVcnxMHsy6IX?qid=20061023085800AAfAHkg ).

Again, free will takes a nose dive.

debrazgalaxy (and others):

So, the Bible is lying about our lack of free will? I can respect your viewpoint. It is an old book filled with the ramblings of generations of men.

But some people do follow the Bible. I'd like to learn from those who adhere to the Bible AND preach free will.

Answer 1

It also said, futher down, "...we will ourselves..."

Hence free will. You CHOSE to will yourseves.

Real world time.

Dr. Strangelove happens. Every NUKE in the world is launched. Like that TV show on CBS.

Underground bunkers with food and filtered air are provided by government.

You and your family go there and get tested.

You are declared low REM, but your wife and kids are not. You are told they have WAY too much exposure to radiation and have terminal radiation sickness and will die within 60 days, NO IF ANDS OR BUTS.

There IS no CURE for radiation sickeness in the world today.

You are told YOU can go into the bunker, but they can't.

The next move is up to you. You can go back out and possilbly die with them or watch them die first, because you aren't as sick or you can go down and live to old age.

It's your choice. In 40 to 80 days THEY WILL BE GONE and YOU WILL STILL be there unless you intentionally give yourself radiation poisoning.

This is called an enevitability and it is a realistic one.

You go into the bunker and try and forget. You use FREE WILL to try and foget they are gone and you are not. That doesn't mean you stop loving them, it means you forget they are gone. You forget they are not there with you.

What did they do wrong, nothing. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time or did something foolish like drinking from the wrong well which YOU didn't do.

The concept of God's heaven is no different.

The concept of free will is no different.

ANY given person will have the FREE WILL RIGHT to give UP their place in heaven. Going to HEAVEN is NOT manditory. It's a privilage not a right.

It's like driving a car. That is not a right and if you are neglegent and careless society TAKES that right away from you or if you fear it you decline to drive.

If you are given a life. If you are neglegent and careless God takes the priviliage of going to Heaven away from you, but if you get the privilage and your wife doesn't, you can decline to go.

All THAT says to GOD was that GOD made the right choice to begin with and YOU were more saintly. So saintly you chose to stay with the one you loved on Earth and God can't fault you for that, God ordered you to do that. God ordered you to take a wife for life and never set her aside.

If you chose to stay and live with your wife and NOT go to Heaven you have exercised FREE WILL and God will respect you for it and not take it as a slight that you love your wife that much.

Jesus said put God above your Mother, Father, Son and Daughter.

For some reason he didn't say WIFE OR HUSBAND.

I guess God and Jesus anticipates a man or woman might love their spouse more than God or Jesus and that is not an offense, so long as you don't go against God or Jesus because of your wife in a humanistic or religious sense.

Adam ate the apple his wife gave him in definace of God and worse he LAID the blame on her instead of taking responsiblity of his own actions. That was wrong. Adam simply loving Eve, more than God. I know of no Biblical precendent against that. God said man is to take a woman and cling to her and become one with her. God can't fault you for taking that to heart.

Answer 2

Free will has been given to us from the beginning. Eve exercised her free will when she disobeyed God and ate from the Tree of Knowledge - BOY was she WRONG! Hence, mankind has been in trouble ever since.

God gave it to us so we can CHOOSE Him. My reasoning is that He did not want us to be non-thinking sentient creatures who blindly obey without giving it a single thought into what, why, the reason for your faith in Him.

I don't know why Christian religions teach this carp - that free will does not exist. I follow my faith rather than a particular religion. I go to the Source rather rely on humans to interpret God's messages for me. He had impressed upon me long ago that free will exists indeed, I have it, and it is entirely up to me whether I choose to obey the Lord or Satan - simple as that. I chose and still choose God.

Free will is a good thing - separates the "men from the boys", weeds out the people who REALLY believe from the frivolous.

Answer 3

First, forget about the bible -- it is too full of errors and internal contradictions to be a reliable guide to anything. Now, let's apply a little science. In principle, one's actions at any given time can be predicted from the data of the current situation, plus one's knowledge, meaning the totality of all inputs one has ever received, so in that sense there is no such thing as free will. In practice, that is obviously impossible to determine, so it is reasonable to assume a free will model. And that works well enough, which is what counts.

Answer 4

Free Will was not what the earlier Church taught. It was a position adopted as a fallback defence against 16th century science that was proving that the earth was not the centre of the universe and was proving it in terms of a predetermined clockwork model of the world which culminated in Newtonian Mechanics. The Church basically Flip- Flopped.
rhsaunder is giving you the position of science in the reformation when he describes the predictable universe. As you can see from his description that Free will was a way to put God back into the equation.

Answer 5

I didn't read your link, but I don't believe in free will either. We might think we do, but what comes just before that choice is made? Yup, a realization that hey, this is a good thing for me, and I want it, and yes, I believe Jesus Christ was God the Son and became the propitiation for my sins. What point in choosing after that if the belief is there? We don't have to sign for it with any prayer of acceptance. Our faith is GIVEN to us, no "do I want it or not" choice necessary. Our eyes are opened where they had been blinded before.

Answer 6

Actually, the Bible does teach of free will and our Choice to follow Christ or not.

Here is a link that has quite a few good Bible quotes and analogies in the "More Free Will Notes" link on the left.


http://www.freewill-predestination.com/

Answer 7

Read the whole New testament...

Which aspect of free Will interests you?
I believe in free will, from a logical perspective. I also believe in some points of Calvinism. The two are not mutually exclusive. This is a topic with a tapestry of grey tones.

What specific points of Armenianism are you at odds with?

Answer 8

You have the free will to accept or deny Christ. You choose to live a Christian life and to make your will Gods will. Many people who call themselves Christians do not live a real Christian lifestyle. It demands being different than how our culture has evolved(whether better or worse). If you do not go to heaven when you die, then when Christ comes back everyone will stand to be judged. Defend their actions/life and maybe still go to heaven.

Answer 9

John 3:16 shows you its free will. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER.. etc..

You can chose to except or reject that free gift. If our parents or loves one end up in hell its because they chose that. I love my family but there is a few I question if they are saved or not. I have even witnessed to them and thats all I can do.

Answer 10

You have to believe everything in the Bible word for word to accept the no freewill clause.