Christians, please tell me why this is OK?

Question

Mk, so, I was reading this (http://www.godisimaginary.com/i13.htm) and I read the part that says
"If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property."
I actually looked it up in the Bible, and it does say that. Please explain to me how this viewpoint fits in with the Christian theory that god is loving?

Longneck... Haha, yeah. That would be SO much better.

I don't see how it being a time before Christ matters. It's the same God, is it not? If not, why do Christians rely so much on the Bible as a whole, instead of just the new testament?

Redoing the link, since I put a ) at the end of the last one.

http://www.godisimaginary.com/i13.htm

Uhhm, sure, being punished would be good. But what would be better is if nobody had slaves to begin with. Maybe God could have helped them out a little with that? Perhaps by mentioning that owning human beings and beating them (even just a little) is wrong.

Sorry, I know I'm adding a lot of details here, but I feel the need to speak to these people. Why do people keep saying 'slavery was the way back then'? It was the way because people were ignorant. An all knowing, powerful, loving god would have seen the truth of it and not condone it by going "Ok, you can beat him up a little, just don't kill him."

Answer 1

You are right. There are a lot of things recorded in the Bible that make us cringe. I am not going to make excuses for it (like "oh well that was God's law back then.") Slavery is wrong. It was wrong then and it's wrong now. Period.

First, you have to understand what the Bible is. It's a collection of writings -- some of which were passed down orally for centuries before ever being written down -- all different kinds of writings. Each book is different; written for a different purpose. Do you really think that all Christians believe every word in the Bible is a direct dictate of God? Okay, some Bible fundamentalists do, but not all of us. It's the difference between being dictated by God and inspired by God. "Inspired" is not quite so dogmatic.

This particular verse, I believe, is a record from when Moses and the Israelites were in the desert. It records the early development of the modern concept of the rule of law. At the time, most tribes had kings, and kings were the law. Under Moses, the Israelites developed consistent laws and the concepts of legal interpretations and precedents. This is what you are reading. While most Christians see the ten commandments as revelation from God, most Bible scholars don't see the long list of rules and penalties as divine revelation in the same sense.

That's why religious leaders study the Bible throughout their lives. They try to understand its wisdom -- its beauty -- and they take what is best and make that their way of life.

Jesus was a real master at this. His famous summary of the ten commandments into two actually came from the Old Testament: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your mind and all your strength, and love your neighbor as yourself.

This is the foundation of Christianity. What a beautiful faith. What a wonderful way to live your life. This is why I am a Christian. I do not let a handful of inconsistent verses from 3500 years ago rob me of what keeps me connected to God and to my neighbor and fulfills my life.

Best of luck in your search for Truth.

Answer 2

Just guessing here, but I would say that at the time this law was given, the Hebrews were a nomadic people. If the slave recovered, then the punishment of the master could well have ceased so that the master could be "freed up" to continue looking after the slave, who is his "property" and his "responsibility".

This being said, some of the Old Testament should be taken with a grain of salt, so to speak.

Unfortunately slavery was a common fact of life in those times. Even though slaves were ideally considered part of the "extended family" of the "master", this ideal was not always realised, and in any case, any slavery should be condemned.

Answer 3

Ouch. Tough one. Sounds like you are really out to prove God is bad/imaginary. OK I am no theologian but those rules were given to the very first Israelites. That was the time, culture. People did have slaves. These technically are Jewish laws, as this was pre-Christ. I agree it does sound bad, but like it or not that's the way it is. For the record, God does love us BUT I think the modern churches huge emphasis on God being all-loving is a bit of a con. Yes he is all loving but there are rules - right and wrong that we humans have to obey. Sometimes we may not like them but that's just the way it is. You should read the last bit of Job where Job brings up the same questions to God and God answers him. Its pretty cool.

Answer 4

It doesn't. Churches tend to ignore all those verses that mention how violent God is.

Most ex-christians (like me) tend to turn away from christianity when they learn how hyopocritical the church really is. Do as I say, not as I do.

Christians claim you must love each other like God loves us - but God destroyed humanity in a flood.

Christians say to not kill one another but God was going to kill Isaac's son (supposedly just to test him - but a God of love should never need to test anyone). Christians also conveniently forget that the church killed hundreds of people during the crusades - just because those people did not beleive in their God. That is not christian behaviour although God did the sme thing in the OT.

Someone will probably tell you that you are reading from the OT and that is not really relevant to us today because Christians now live under the new covanent as revealed in the NT. So why include the OT if it is no longer relevant to the church today.?

I hear so many stories of christians abusing their children, but nobody does anything about it because "it is the parents right to discipline" their children. I know of a pastor who left his family and ran away with another woman. Is that christian behaviour? Of course not.

Sorry, but all this hypocrisy has turned me right off christians.

I know you wanted only christians to response, but that means you get a one-sided view and you need to see both sides. Christianity is a violent religion.

Answer 5

It doesn't seem to me like you've got a very good grasp of why the bible is important, and what it is important for.

Dueteronomy, Leviticus, and whatnot set out Jewish law for the late bronze age and early iron age. So yes - you're going to find a lot of quaint and antiquated ways of governing a society (although it bears noting that these were remarkably humane and advanced compared to the standards of their neighbours.)

But the importance of the Old Testament to Christians is not in the minutiae of how bronze age people handled their legal affairs; it is in the prophetic and anticipatory aspects - that which foreshadows the coming of Jesus.

And that is the crux of Christian faith - not the bible, but Jesus. Jesus is what is at the center of Christian faith, and everything else, scripture included, is subservient to that reality.

St. Augustine said, "by searching in the Prophets, see the Old Testament revealed in the New, and the New hidden in the Old."

To really and truly understand this, you would do well to attend a Catholic Easter vigil, the Saturday before Easter (that is, if you're actually interested in your own question, and not just trying to tweak Christians, in which case I write all this in vain.) The readings are creation, the flood, the deliverance of the Israelites, the things we consider anticipatory.

That is the best way to understand how the Old Testament is important to us, and in what way. It is the things that prefigure - the creation story that prefigures the new creation, the flood that prefigures baptism, the deliverance in the parted seas that prefigures the deliverance of Christ.... the things that prefigure are what makes the Old Testament important.

St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 9 that "it is written in the law of Moses, "You shall not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is God concerned about oxen, or is he not really speaking for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope, and the thresher in hope of receiving a share."

The ancient books of law are not something we learn for their own sake. We learn them, because in them we find the words that tell us Christ is coming. This is the Advent hope - once, the people waited for him, hoping to see his day. And now, we like them, wait for him to come in glory again.

Answer 6

Catholics are Christians. Catholics position self assurance in God and pray --because they are *Christians.* in case you marry a Catholic, you'll nonetheless be marrying a Christian. The earliest Christians were Coptic Christians, Orthodox Christians, and Roman Catholic Christians --and also Gnostic Christians (who the Catholic Christians determined were heretics like some Protestants imagine Catholics are heretics). you're one or yet another type of *Protestant* Christian. Protestant Christianity emerged throughout the time of about the 14th century--about 1000 years after Orthodox and Catholic Christianity did. Protestant Christianity chop up right into 100 denominations considering that then. all of them have certain names (Methodist, Lutheran, Baptist, Pentecostal, and so on.) did you comprehend yours? it really is a heritage lesson to placed issues into perspective. do you want permission from strangers on yahoo solutions as a lot as now or not date a determined guy who you've been experienced to hate--as a Protestant Christian (who doesn't even comprehend what denomination she belongs to) because he's a Catholic Christian?

Answer 7

I can't see a problem with that, the man is punished either way, because as the Bible says, 'he is his property', so it is his loss because it is his responsibility to nurse him back to health, to feed him and care for him and it is his loss if the slave is permanently disabled. Whatever damage he does he has to live with it. And if the slave dies, don't you think that he should be punished?
Aren't you glad that as Christians we aren't living that way today because Christ "has delievered us from the curse of the law"?

Answer 8

Your question made me think too.. Anyway, that rule about the slave was established generations before the time of Christ. Its goes on like the comment of Jesus about the possibility of divorce. "He said to them, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it has not been so." (Mt. 19:8)

Hope this helped you.. Try reading the first Encyclical of the Pope Benedict XVI about Christian Love entitled "Deus Caritas Est."

Thank you and God bless..

Answer 9

In those older days God gave his people many rules and regulations. In those days God was a lovong God but since the people behave very badly He was strict also .But in new testament days God forgave every one and was more open loving God than the Punishing God on olden days.

Answer 10

I have never read that in the Bible - but if it is in there I guarantee its in the old testiment. As Christians we are liberated from the laws and lifestyles of the Old Testiment through Jesus's life. We no longer have to abide by those laws (some of them are sooo outdated! like the no eating pork etc - but Jews still abide by old testiment laws as they do not believe that Jesus is the Christ so they aren't liberated by the New Testiment.) So don't get too caught up by old testiment laws and rules.