It seems as if Jesus was addressing those at the Olivet Discourse about events that would soon take place in their lifetime. Especially verse 34 that says "...this generation will by no means pass away till all these things come to pass." Then in verse 44 He is specific about those listening to them as the object of His sermon by addressing them directly with the words "Therefore YOU also be ready..."
If the implications are correct that the key to understanding what is being said here can only be understood by knowing the symbolic apocalyptic language it would only follow that the idea of a pre-trib, mid-trib or post-tribulation rapture becomes errant and the next event in the unfolding of endtime events would be the pouring out of Gods wrath upon the earth. The mark of the beast would be in the things you do (hands) and upon your forehead in the worldview and authority that you recognize. The Christians then would be preserved through the seal of the Holy Spirit upon them.
2006-10-29 12:56:20 · 10 answers · asked by messenger 3 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
Obviously this would add more to the idea that those who perservere to the end shall be saved.
In light of the persecuted church around the world it bothers me to think of so many Christians in the western culture expect to be magically wisked away as they are exempt from the persecution that the church is experiencing elsewhere. I have always believed in a pre-trib rapture but lately I wonder if I got it wrong. The fact is that this doctrine did not make it into the church until the advent of modern day evangelicalism.
Just like to get some opinions of others about this and see if anyone knows of a website that supports a similar doctrine of eschatology.
2006-10-29 13:03:40 · update #1
I don't know of any websites but I do agree that the tribulation has already happened. if you look at the 14th verse Jesus tells them,And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached and then shall the end come. Gospel means truth and Jesus told them in the 10th chapter the 23 verse...But when they persecute you in this city flee you into another:for verily I say unto you,Ye
shall not have gone over the cities of Israel,till the Son of man be come.Now it is impossible for me to believe Jesus wasn't meaning this,and I do believe that when the understanding to the truth that the tribulation has already happened the end will come.
This is hard for me to explain on the web but I firmly believe that
Christianity has been blinded from this truth.I might add I will be totally surprised if anyone else agrees with you though.I also thank you for bringing this up sometimes I think I am the only one that knows this,but I know I am not.
2006-10-29 13:50:06 · answer #1 · answered by jackiedj8952 5 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Well, there are a LOT of things that didn't happen, don't forget. I think that some of what Jesus said most definitely applied to that particular generation, but it is a bit confusing to me, because it seems rather jumbled up.
These things didn't happen in His disciples' time:
"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."
"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
"For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
But then it gets confusing, because after that Jesus says:
"So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
So... this generation... means what, exactly? I do NOT know. :o)
"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."
2006-10-29 13:02:18 · answer #2 · answered by Iamnotarobot (former believer) 6 · 1⤊ 1⤋
If it did happen, and the millennial reign of Christi followed, then we are in heaven or hell now. The pouring out of Gods wrath come in the second half of the tribulation.
2006-10-29 13:03:30 · answer #3 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
Harpazo = Rapture
END-TIME BIBLE PROPHECY
The Messiah Lord Jesus said BIRTH PANGS would signal the time of the end (Matthew 24:8). There are NINE birth pangs, they are all PRE-TRIBULATIONAL and the 1st three already occurred.
The first birth pang was worldwide conflict coupled with famines and earthquakes (Matthew 24:7-8). Worldwide conflict was fulfilled in 1914-1918, major famines happened in 1918-1921 and most of the world’s major earthquakes began to occur since 1900.
The second birth pang was the restoration of a Jewish State (Ezekiel 20:33-38; Ezekiel 22:17-22; Ezekiel 36:22-24; Zephaniah 2:1-2). This was fulfilled in 1948.
The third birth pang was Jewish control of the Old City of Jerusalem (Revelation 11:1-2). For the third Jewish Temple (Tribulation Temple) to be rebuilt, Jerusalem needs to be under Jewish control and this was accomplished in the Six Day War in 1967.
The fourth birth pang will be the Ezekiel 38 war. Russia, allied states of Iran, Ethiopia, Somalia, Germany and Armenia will invade Israel. God will miraculously destroy the invading army by earthquake, civil war among the invading soldiers, pestilence, blood, flood, hailstones, fire and brimstone. This will bring a revival in Israel where many Jews will turn to the Lord, and Israel will spend 7 years and 7 months burying the bodies and burning for fuel the military equipment left behind (Ezekiel 39:9-16).
The 5th birth pang will be the development of a one world government (Daniel 7:23-24).
The 6th birth pang will be the splitting of the one world government into 10 kingdoms and this Ten Kingdom Stage will continue until mid-Tribulation (Daniel 7:24).
The 7th birth pang will be the revelation of the Antichrist (II Thessalonians 2:1-3; Daniel 7:24).
The 8th birth pang will be a period of peace and false security that will be shattered by the Tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:1-3).
The 9th and final birth pang before the Tribulation is the signing of the 7-year covenant between Israel and the Antichrist. THIS EVENT IS WHAT BEGINS THE (7-year) TRIBULATION - NOT THE RAPTURE!
The Rapture of the Church (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18) is also a pre-tribulational event (Luke 21:34-37; 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10; 1 Thessalonians 5:1-10; Revelation 3:10; Revelation 19:6-8). The fact that the Church is not mentioned in any of the Tribulation Scriptures proves the Rapture is pre-tribulational. All raptured Christians will receive glorified bodies (Romans 8:22-23; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54)) and it can happen at any second.
THE FIRST HALF OF THE TRIBULATION (SUPPORTING VERSES IN REVELATION 6-9 AND 17)
The Ministry of 144,000 sealed Jewish believers will bring many throughout the world to accept Christ.
There will be a powerful Ministry of Two Witnesses who will also be anointed Jewish believers.
A one world religious system (Babylon the Harlot) will rule. Under this one world religious system, many who are saved during the Tribulation will suffer persecution and death.
The Political system of the 10 kings of the one world government will continue.
During the first half of the Tribulation there will also be war, worldwide famine, death (1/4 of the world’s population will die), a huge earthquake, a blackout and a meteor shower. 1/3 of earth’s dry surface will be destroyed, 1/3 sea life and salt water will be destroyed, a fallen angel called Wormwood will make 1/3 of earth’s fresh water bitter, 1/3 of earth’s natural light sources will be destroyed, there will be another blackout and demons in the form of “locust-scorpions” will come up out of the abyss led by Abaddon their king and they will inflict harm and pain for five months upon those who are not sealed by God (unbelievers). Another demonic invasion will occur and the demons involved will be led by four fallen angels who will be released from the Euphrates River and this army will kill 1/3 of the earth’s population.
MID-TRIBULATION (SUPPORTING VERSES IN REVELATION 10-14 AND 17)
The Antichrist will war against the 10 kings, and during the war the Antichrist will be killed.
Satan will be cast out of the atmospheric heavens onto earth and will resurrect the Antichrist.
The Antichrist will kill 3 kings (the kings of Syria, Egypt and Mesopotamia) and the 7 other kings will submit to him.
The Antichrist will kill the Two Witnesses in Jerusalem and the wicked people will celebrate this event. Three and a half days afterwards, God will resurrect the Two Witnesses and take them up to Heaven and the people who celebrated will become terrified. The city of Jerusalem where the murder of the Two Witnesses occurred will then suffer an earthquake which will kill 7,000 people.
The False Prophet will receive from Satan the power to perform great miracles and will deceive many. The False Prophet will command all people to worship the Antichrist and have persons create an image to the Antichrist. The False Prophet will use his satanic powers to give it life and the ability to speak. The False Prophet will cause those who refuse to worship the Antichrist and the image to be killed.
The False Prophet will issue his own counterfeit seal known as the Mark of the Beast and it will be placed on all those who surrender to the Antichrist’s authority and accept him as god. Those who refuse to take this mark will not be able to buy or sell. Those who take this mark will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire.
The Antichrist will break the seven-year covenant he made with Israel, cause the sacrifices to stop, sit in the Jewish Temple, declare to the world that he is really God and set up an idol called the Abomination of Desolation in the Temple (Daniel 9:27; Daniel 12:11; Matthew 24:15-16; 11Thessalonians 2:3-4; Revelation 13:11-15).
Through the Antichrist and the False Prophet, Satan will attempt to destroy the Jews once and for all but he will fail because 1/3 of the Jews will succeed in fleeing into the wilderness. These Jews who escape will accept the Lord Jesus as their Saviour during the Tribulation (Zechariah 13:7-9) and while they are in hiding, God will miraculously provide for them (Zechariah 13:8-9; Isaiah 41:17-20). Divine intervention will also destroy the pursuing army.
THE SECOND HALF OF THE TRIBULATION (SUPPORTING VERSES FOUND IN REVELATION 15, 16, 18, 19, 20)
In the second half of the Tribulation, those with the Mark of the Beast will suffer skin sores, the remainder of sea water and fresh water will be destroyed, the sun will cause terrible burns and the wicked will blaspheme God. There will be yet another blackout and persons will suffer gnawing pains.
Babylon will be the center of world economy and political system but Babylon will be swiftly destroyed by fire and become uninhabitable for man.
The Antichrist will locate the Jews who sought refuge in the wilderness and surround them with his armies to wipe them out. The Lord Jesus will then descend from Heaven with His angels and Saints. He will come with great glory riding upon a horse and will destroy the Antichrist, the False Prophet and all of their armies. After this, a loud voice will cry out “It is done!” followed by the greatest earthquake in the earth’s history and hail weighing 120 pounds will fall.
At the end of the Tribulation, there will be another blackout, the stars will fall from the sky and the heavenly bodies will be shaken (Matthew 24:29), the Antichrist and the False Prophet will be thrown into the eternal Lake of Fire and Satan will be cast into the Abyss and bound for 1,000 years.
THE MILLENNIUM
The Lord Jesus will reign over the entire earth during the Millennium. The Jewish and Gentile believers who survive the Tribulation will go on to populate the Millennium. Believers who died before and during the Tribulation and believers who were raptured will be present on earth during the Millennium and because they will have glorified bodies they will not reproduce. All believers will be given special tasks by the Lord Jesus (Revelation 20:4-6). There will be no wars (Isaiah 2:2-4), animals will return to the Edenic state and become vegetarians (Isaiah 11:6-9), people will not labour in vain but eat what they plant and inhabit what they build, there will be renovations in the heavens and earth and there will be righteous and unrighteous children born during the Millennium (Isaiah 65:17-25).
At the end of the Millennium, Satan will be loosed from the Abyss and will deceive and gather the unrighteous for a war against the righteous. This will be his final attempt to destroy the righteous and when the unrighteous of the Millennium surround the good people, God will send fire down from Heaven which will suddenly and massively annihilate all of the wicked people. Satan will then be cast into the Lake of Fire where he will remain in torment for eternity (Revelation 20:7-10).
THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT
The Great White Throne Judgment will be the next main event. The old heavens and earth will be done away with and all will stand before God’s throne to be judged (Revelation 20:11-12). Those whose names are not found written in the Book of Life will be cast into the Lake of Fire which will be their final and eternal abode (Revelation 20:14-15).
THE ETERNAL ORDER (REVELATION 21 AND 22)
Those whose names are found in the Book of Life will enjoy paradise with God forever. The heavens and earth will be made new and the New Jerusalem will come down upon the earth making the earth like Heaven. All curses from the fall will be removed and the earth will be inhabited by the Triune God (The Father, Son and Holy Spirit), all angels and all of the righteous. The seas, moon, night and sun will be done away with and the glory of God will illuminate the earth. The River of Life will flow from God’s throne, the Tree of Life will bear health-giving fruits and leaves and the name of Jesus will be on the foreheads of all of the righteous.
God’s Plan of Salvation for Us
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZkDk1GZ7do
2015-02-24 05:02:53 · answer #4 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 0⤋
No...The "time of Jacob's trouble" began when Jesus was killed, and it hasn't ended yet.
To claim that it happened in 70AD is to totally ignore all that the Jews have been suffering since...and will continue to suffer till the end of time.
This is their punishment for rejecting their Lord
2006-10-29 13:36:41 · answer #5 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 1⤋
The tribulation? Isn't that supposed to happen in 2048?
2006-10-29 12:58:20 · answer #6 · answered by Lauren 5 · 0⤊ 1⤋
Nope.><>
2006-10-29 12:59:11 · answer #7 · answered by CEM 5 · 1⤊ 1⤋
the destruction of the temple yes,
the tribulation of revelation is yet to happen
2006-10-29 12:57:56 · answer #8 · answered by cork 7 · 0⤊ 1⤋
No. It has not begun.
2006-10-29 13:31:25 · answer #9 · answered by Esther 7 · 1⤊ 1⤋
no
2006-10-29 12:59:58 · answer #10 · answered by norm s 5 · 1⤊ 1⤋