What I mean is:
If free will is real, then god cannot force us to make any particular decision (and in fact, this is something I've been told more than once on this board).
But: If god cannot order everything -- including our decisions -- according to his will, then this means that god is not all-powerful. And if god is not all-powerful, then he is not god.
2006-10-29 01:43:43 · 23 answers · asked by ? 7 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
see... GOD doesn't govern our decisions... we do...
If GOD controlled everything... there would be no accountability.
2006-10-29 01:45:36 · answer #1 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 1⤋
Interesting question.....and we both know that there is no right or wrong answer....heck, we do not even know if there IS a God or not. Let me throw some thoughts in your direction and see what you think. :^)
Free will can exist and God can be all powerful all at the same time and know the outcome and it is still free will. For example: You see a moth flying toward a bug zapper.....you KNOW the out come before it happens BUT do nothing to stop it FROM happening.....the moth has "free" will and you as the watcher knew the outcome before it happened.
God if he/she/it does exist may well be outside what we consider the time line and God might well know everything before it happens....but CHOOSES not to intervene....apparently he did this "back in the day" with little success and since then has kinda decided to not be directly involved - or so the bible tells us.
Very interesting question....now if you continue along that train of thought you might say well then what is the point of knowing something before it happens and doing nothing about it ? God might do something or might not....and how would we ever know the difference. small influences, small changes can make huge outcomes....have you ever changed your mind even if you were 100% decided on something ?
2006-10-29 08:59:21 · answer #2 · answered by Tragedy 3 · 0⤊ 0⤋
What then is it that you are proposing? If you don't want there to be a God it should logically follow that there is not one? Your logic is about as shallow and transparent as the hatred you wear on your sleeve for all to see. The only thing that God forces you to do is to recieve the consequences you desire. God does not force Himself upon you, if you knew Him personally you would know that about Him. God does order all things to follow certain rules of causation. He will not violate your free will but neither will He let you not suffer the consequences of your actions. He is a merciful God but He is also a Just God and we will all get what we ask for. You want Him to not exist? So be it. When tragedy strikes your life and the most greivious of circumstances over whelms you and your heart breaks over the unfairness of life and loss. Go to your no-god philosophy and find comfort.
2006-10-29 10:04:03 · answer #3 · answered by messenger 3 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Nonsense. When an inferior enjoys a certain degree of freedom only by the decision of the superior, that doesn't lessen the authority of the superior in the slightest.
If the lieutenant says to the general, "Sir, should I do A or B?", and the general replies "use your own judgment", does that make the general any less in charge?
2006-10-29 09:15:03 · answer #4 · answered by PaulCyp 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Your statement seems to rely on the assumption that for God to be God, God must be a controlling God.
But can you not see the beauty in the design that beings who want to follow God's will do so because they love God and God's will?
In this way the universe is created and sustained by love and those who choose to flow with God's river of life, as opposed to those who are constantly railing against it.
Peace
2006-10-29 09:10:21 · answer #5 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
God gave us all free will, it is real.
God does not force us to make any decisions. But, by giving us this free will, it doesn't mean God doesn't have the ability to do it, just that He wants us all to be free to decide for ourselves.
God CAN order everything, but He chooses to not do that, so we are each responsible for our own actions.
2006-10-29 09:07:24 · answer #6 · answered by The Question Man 3 · 0⤊ 0⤋
There is always someone out there trying to say God does not exist..... Well , we have the will to say no... but since faith is a gift of God and he gives it to those whom he will, remember alot of people read the bible , hear the sermons that is the truth he is giving you the invitation sort of speak, so if you dont want to choose it you wont, but if your heart is convicted by it, you may beleive it , hence the word of God has made a covenant with you . But if you beleive not, you will still be held accountable for it and judged for it by your denial. GOD IS GOD...whether you like it or not...
2006-10-29 09:00:59 · answer #7 · answered by Mike 3 · 0⤊ 0⤋
If by free will you mean that we are incapable of choosing God, I believe you are correct. This is what predestination refers to, and it's scriptural. Logically, if free will exists, then that makes God into a lovable plaything that we can accept or refuse at will. However, if we look at ourselves as incapable of looking to God for salvation, then we are now defined as tainted and totally depraved, and it takes a loving God to rescue us out of our condition. Thus God is all-powerful and has saved us by grace through his son who took on sin for us. Any "acceptance" that we feel we have a right to, becomes an illusion of capabilities that we truly do not have.
2006-10-29 19:05:44 · answer #8 · answered by ccrider 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
If you are facing a contradiction, check your premises, you will find one of them is wrong.
1. God gives free will
2. God cannot force us to do something (or will not)
3. ???????????????
By the way, if the universe is purely materialistic, then determinism is a necessary conclusion. Many of the smart atheists on this site agree.
You can only have free will if we are created beings.
2006-10-29 09:07:00 · answer #9 · answered by Cogito Sum 4 · 0⤊ 0⤋
"If god is not all-powerful he is not god" according to you.
Actually the idea of an all-powerful all-knowing god is not compatible with anything, but that doesn't seem to worry many believers. As you will see from these answers!
2006-10-29 08:47:06 · answer #10 · answered by fourmorebeers 6 · 1⤊ 0⤋
Are you trying to convince yourself or someone else?
Personally, I am agnostically atheist, but I don't waste any time or breath trying to convince anyone else. Belief in god is based on faith. You cannot "reason" someone out of their faith...and why do you need to?
Isn't it possible that an all powerful being could CHOOSE not to control everything?
2006-10-29 08:47:27 · answer #11 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋