The sun sets in murky water?

Question

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http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AqqtkTAr9JwenFNopTDSConzy6IX?qid=20061028214016AA453XZ

Answer 1

no idiot. there are verses in the Quran which is very hard to translate it accuratly. and that's the problem with the Bible.

Answer 2

it is all beside the point via fact is impossible to discover the solar placing in a physique of water so of course he did no longer, he could have been on the sting of a physique of water and from the place he replaced into "he got here upon" it to look like it replaced into placing interior the water. If for the period of the Quran this thought that the solar set in water replaced right into a consistant one or if it replaced into stated right away from Allah(swt), then you definately will have a controversy even though it is being utilized in a parable of a guy that roamed this earth. for the period of the Quran we see Allah talk directly to us and then we see Him provide us parables. those parables are memories and examples so it is achievable that Allah is using a greater "acceptable" type of writing on a similar time as discribing Zul-qarnain adventure. You tension the undeniable fact that he REACHED a place the place the solar replaced into placing in a muddy sping. So idealy he reached a muddy sping, is that honest to assert, ok so how great replaced into this sping? can we predict the solar replaced into placing on the different end of the physique of water? like while u stand at a lake and u can watch the solar set and itlooks asif it is placing into the lake. Or yet another occasion we can say that we REACHED the mountain, although that doesnt propose we can see the different area of it, in basic terms becasue you REACHED a place that would not mena you ahve explored all factors of it. which would be an exceptionally solid arguement on your behalf if interior something of the Quran there replaced into no point out of ways the solar easily does functionality, and you have been provided with the help of many different persons those verses am I incorrect? And in all seriousness I dont think of that absolutely everyone seems to be copping out of debates with you becasue they cant answer you, they do answer you and in a actual debate on the subject count Im particular you will not carry solid. the common actuality is that as quickly as defeat is performed it may be regarded and your "objective" of pointing out a fault interior the Quran has been shown vulnerable and would not stand in a actual debate.

Answer 3

And the point is ? Whether the author of the verse was actually accurate about how the solar system moves is not the point of the verse. This is an expression we all still use and our standard frame of reference is from a steady motionless earth. This man trying to clarify Koran as scientific just tells me that the Muslim Clerics are just as much under siege from the Atheists and Science as the Christians. The siege mentality they are displaying is giving rise to fundamentalist sects who fear the unknown in all major religions.

Answer 4

Yes my son. Even in the murky water. The sun sets. Good Luck ! :)

Answer 5

leave them!! any one with a brain will at least try to understand the verse's context and it's not that hard to understand!!


people are pathetic. they know they LIE and they understand the verse very well but they can twist it and make it look like an error to justify their hate and bigotry.


they can KISS MY MUSLIM ***

Answer 6

sometimes than becomes clear

Answer 7

Yep...

Answer 8

Let me quote exactly what he says and then refute it.

Naik says The other point that Dr. William Campbell raised was regarding Sura Kahf 18:86. The Sura says the sun setting in murky water, in turbid water. Imagine, sun setting in murky water! Unscientific! The Arabic word used here is: it’s wajada meaning, it appeared to Zulqarnain. Dr. William Campbell knows Arabic. Wajada means… you can look in the dictionary also; it means it appeared. Allah (swt) is describing what appeared to Zulqarnain. If I make the statement that a student in the class said 2+2=5 and you say “oh Zakir said 2+2=5. I didn’t say. I am telling that the student in my class said 2+2=5. I am not wrong, the student is wrong. There are various ways to try and analyze this word. One is this way, according to Muhammad Asad, that vajada means it appeared to. It appeared to Zulqarnain.


Dr. Naik is trying to give a new meaning to a commonly used Arabic word. Wajada means “found”, not “appeared”. All the ten translators of the Quran that I consulted have translated this word as found.

Pickthall:Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.
Yusuf Ali:Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."
Hilali-Khan:Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people. We (Allah) said (by inspiration): "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness."
Shakir:Until when he reached the place where the sun set, he found it going down into a black sea, and found by it a people. We said: O Zulqarnain! either give them a chastisement or do them a benefit.
Sher Ali:Until when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting as if in a pool of murky water, and near it he found a people. WE said, `O Dhu'l Qarnain, you may punish them, or treat them with kindness.'
KhalifaWhen he reached the far west, he found the sun setting in a vast ocean, and found people there. We said, "O Zul-Qarnain, you can rule as you wish; either punish, or be kind to them."
Arberry:until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and he found nearby a people. We said, 'O Dhool Karnain, either thou shalt chastise them, or thou shalt take towards them a way of kindness.'
Palmer: until when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it setting in a black muddy spring, and he found thereat a people.' We said, 'O Dhu 'l Qarnain! thou mayest either torment these people, or treat them well.'
Rodwell:Until when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it to set in a miry fount; and hard by he found a people. We said, "O Dhoulkarnain! either chastise or treat them generously."
Sale: until he came to the place where the sun setteth; [and] he found it to set in a spring of black mud; and he found near the same a certain people. And we said, o Dhu'lkarnein, either punish [this people], or use gentleness towards them.
Transliterated Arabic: Hatta itha balagha maghriba alshshamsi wajadaha taghrubu fee AAaynin hami-atin wawajada AAindaha qawman qulna ya tha alqarnayni imma an tuAAaththiba wa-imma an tattakhitha feehim husnan.

Dr. Naik is lying again. Let us read the verse:
018:085
And he followed a road.

Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found (wajada) it setting in a muddy spring, and found (wajada) a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.

The word wajada is used twice. Are we supposed to understand that the people whom he saw were not real but also an apparition? How could he reward and punish such imaginary people? Again we find the same word in the same sura:

18.92 Then followed he (another) way,

18.93 Until, when he reached (a tract) between two mountains, he found, (wajada) beneath them, a people who scarcely understood a word.

Was this also an apparition?

Here are two other verses where wajada is used:

3:37 And her Lord accepted her with full acceptance and vouchsafed to her a goodly growth; and made Zachariah her guardian. Whenever Zachariah went into the sanctuary where she was, he found (wajada) that she had food.

28:23 And when he came unto the water of Midian he found (wajada) there a whole tribe of men, watering.

Dr. Naik lied. Then he went on to shift the blame on Zulqranain and said it is not the fault of Allah for saying what Zulqranain had mistakenly assumed.

If so, why Allah did not make it clear that Zulqranain had made a mistake? Since in those days everyone thought that the Earth is flat, this was the perfect chance for Allah to set the record straight and clarify that Zulqranain was mistaken because the Sun does not set in waters; it is the Earth that is rotating making you think it is rising and setting. If this was said, then we would have accepted that the Quran contains scientific miracle. As it stands now, it contains nothing but error and scientific blunders



Dr Naik point 2
The Arabic word used is Maghrib. It can be used for time as well as place. When we say sunset, sunset can be taken for time. If I say the sun set at 7 PM, I am using it for time. If I say the sun set in the West, it means I am taking it for place. So here if you use the word Maghrib for time. So Zulqarnain did not reach that place of sunset –use it for time- he reached there at the TIME of sunset. Furthermore you can solve it in various ways.


The verse in Arabic says Hatta itha balagha maghriba alshshamsi. This literally means: Till when he reached the setting-place of the Sun. All the translators have invariably translated maghrib as "setting-place" and not "time of setting". The structure of the sentence does not allow for such an interpretation.

But the most interesting part of Dr. Naik’s statement is his last sentence. He said, “You can solve it in various ways”. That is the main point. If the Quran is the book of God, it should have been clear. There would have been no need for Muslims to try to solve its problems in every imaginable way. Why should there be several explanations for each verse when at the outset the book says "this is a clear book with no doubt in it"? Did it appear to Zulqranain that the Sun sets in murky waters or did he just reach that place at the time of sunset? Do you see how Naik desperately try to find ways to explain the unexplainable?

The reason Muslims need these “various ways" to explain the obtuse verses of the Quran is because the meaning of these verses are not clear. They sound irrational and Muslim ulama know that. Therefore they bend backwards and perform all sorts of mental gymnastics to make them look plausible. One comes with one silly explanation which is not satisfactory, so someone else offers another explanation and so on. The only correct explanation is that the Quran is not the word of God.

When you read tafsir, you see that virtually for every verse in the Quran the Ulama have come up with several interpretations but none of them is convincing. This is proof that the Quran is a book of confusions. If the Quran was true, there would be no need for any interpretations and tafsirs. It would have been clear to all those who read it. Truth is only one, but falsehood can be many. So much for a book that claims to be a perspicuous book 5:15, explained in detail 6:114, conveyed clearly, 5:16, 10:15, easy to understand 44:58 , 54:22 , 54:32, 54:40 and in which there is no doubt 2:1.



Naik pt 3
Even if Dr. William Campbell says… ‘No No, the basic assumption is too much - It is not… ‘Appeared to’… it is actually this.’ Let us analyze it further. The Qur'anic verse says… the Sun set in murky water.’ Now we know, when we use these words, like ‘sunrise’ and ‘sunset’ - does the sunrise? Scientifically, sun does not rise - neither does the sunset. We know scientifically, that the sun does not set at all. It is the rotation of the earth, which gives rise to sunrise and sunset. But yet you read in the everyday papers mentioning, sunrise at 6 a.m. sun sets at 7.00 p.m. Oh! The newspapers are wrong – Unscientific!’ If I use the word ‘Disaster’, Oh! There is a disaster’ – ‘Disaster’ means there is some calamity which has taken place. Literally, ‘disaster’ means ‘an evil star.’ So when I say… ‘This disaster’ every one knows what I mean is ‘a calamity’, not about the evil star.’ Dr. William Campbell and I know, when a person who is mad, we call him a lunatic - Yes or no? At least I do, and I believe Dr. William Campbell also will be doing that. We call a person ‘a lunatic’ – He is ‘mad.’ What is the meaning of ‘lunatic’? It means… ‘struck by the moon’ - But that is how the language has evolved. Similarly sun rise, is actually, it is just a usage of words. And Allah has given the guidance for the human beings also - He uses so, that we understand. So it is just ‘sunset’ - Not that it is actually setting - Not that sun is actually rising. So this explanation clearly gives us a clear picture, that the Verse of the Qur’an of Surah Kahf, Chapter.18, Verse No 86, is not in contradiction with established science - That is the way how people speak.


Earlier Dr. Naik told us that this was an error committed by Zulqarnain who thought the Sun is setting in murky waters and Allah is simply reporting what appeared to Zulqarnain. Here Dr. Naik is shifting position and is saying that Allah is only using a figurative speech. Which explanation is the correct one?

Yes indeed the word sunset, although technically wrong, is still part of our lexicon, but this does not explain the difficulty that we find in the Quran. Is Allah speaking figuratively? Verse 018:085 says:

And he followed a road.

Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun,

And 018:089
Then he followed a road

Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun,

The text does in no way allow us to take the setting and the rising places of the sun figuratively. The story is clear. Zulqarnain followed a road till he reached the setting place of the Sun. He took another road till he reached the rising-place of the Sun. Anyone can see sunrise and sunset from anywhere in the world. This is hardly worthy of mention. But only Alexander the Great (Zulqarnain) who was believed to have conquered the world form one end to another had the unique privilege to see the setting and the rising places of the Sun. That is why this story was deemed to be important to be mentioned.

All the explanations offered by Dr. Naik are excuses. In these verses maghrib cannot be translated as the TIME of sunset. None of the translators have made that mistake. The expression used is not figurative. The verse is talking about an event that actually took place and was observed by Zulqarnian and not something that appeared to him.


Then He quoted Surah Furqan, Chapter. 25, Verse. 45 and 46, that… ‘The shadow lengthens and prolongates - We can make it stationary - the sun is its guide.’ And in his book he mentions… ‘Does the sun move?’ Where does this Verse say… ‘The sun moves.’ In Surah Furqan, Chapter.25, Verse. 45 and 46, does not say the sun moves. And he writes is his book… ‘We were taught in eliminatory school’ - and he said that also in his talk that… ‘It is due to the rotation of the earth, that the shadow prolongs and gets small. But what the Qur’an says… ‘The sun is its guide.’ Today, even a person who has not gone to school, knows that shadow is due to sunlight. Even a layman, who has not gone to school, knows that shadow is due to sunlight. So Qur’an is perfectly right - It does not say the sun moves and the shadow is caused. He is putting his own words in the Qur’an. The Sun is its guide - It is guiding the shadow - Without sunlight, you cannot have shadow. Yes, you can have shadows of the light - it is a different thing. But here it is referring to the shadow, which you see, which is moving - Prolonging and becoming short.


Well let us read the verse and see who is putting his own words in the Quran .

25:45-46
Hast thou not seen how thy Lord hath spread the shade - And if He [3rd person] willed He could have made it still - then We [1st person] have made the sun its pilot.
Yes everyone knows that shadow is caused by the Sun and not just today but always. My dog knows it too because when it gets hot, he seeks a place of shade. But Muhammad says that if Allah willed he could have made the shadow stand still. How that is possible? The only way that is is possible is to make the "moving" sun stand still.


Let us consult Bukhari and Muslim and see if they can shed some light on this problem.

Bukhari 4.53.353
The Prophet said, "A prophet amongst the prophets carried out a holy military expedition, …and when he reached that town at the time or nearly at the time of the 'Asr prayer, he said to the sun, 'O sun! You are under Allah's Order and I am under Allah's Order O Allah! Stop it (i.e. the sun) from setting.' It was stopped till Allah made him victorious

Muslims 1.0300
Abu Dharr reported: I asked the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) the (implication of the) words of Allah, the Exalted: The sun glides to its appointed resting place. He replied: Its appointed resting place is under the Throne.

Bukhari 4.54.421

Narrated Abu Dhar: The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). That is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing." (36.38) This hadith is also reported in Bukhari6.60.326, Bukhari6.60.327, Bukhari 9.93.528, and Muslim1.0297

Bukahri 4.55.556
Narrated Abu Huraira: We were in the company of the Prophet at a banquet and a cooked (mutton) forearm was set before him, and he used to like it. He ate a morsel of it and said, "I will be the chief of all the people on the Day of Resurrection. Do you know how Allah will gather all the first and the last (people) in one level place where an observer will be able to see (all) of them and they will be able to hear the announcer, and the sun will come near to them…

So it is clear what Muhammad thought about the function of Sun in the sky. He thought like any other ignorant person of his time. He thought the Sun is a lamp that thinks and worships Allah; that it goes around the earth and if Allah orders it to stop in midair it will and if He tells it to rise from the West, it will obey. This is the cosmology of Muhammad.

Bukhari 2.018.167
Narrated Abu Musa:
The sun eclipsed and the Prophet got up, being afraid that it might be the Hour (i.e. Day of Judgment). He went to the Mosque and offered the prayer with the longest Qiyam.

This is again another proof that Muhammad had no understanding of a natural phenomenon such as eclipse. He was afraid of it and thought this is the sign of Allah that the world is ending. Why would he be afraid of the Hour of Reckoning if he had nothing to fear? Obviously he was well conscious of the fact that he was lying.




Can u refute what i have mentioned above?