What if science and faith are both right?

Question

“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” – Albert Einstein

“The test of first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.” – F. Scott Fitzgerald

The debate too often is either or. Maybe it is both. A coin has 2 sides. If you focus on one side, all you see it that side. In reality, it has 2 sides. The debate here is sometimes one-sided.

Consider this: God is the Truth. Science pursues the truth. Thus, maybe "the truth" includes both God and Science. It just depends what you are looking for and at. Just a thought.

Note: In the above, God is only a non-denominational creator. Do not read a religion into this.

Kathryn: There is no proof when I love someone and they say they love me that this is true. In fact, what is love, can you touch it. You can feel it, but, it is not really real is it? Yet, most of us believe in love.

It is well known that you cannot prove, a priori, that God exists. You can have many good reasons to believe he exists, and then take a step of faith.

You believe in a totally materialistic universe. But where does consciousness come from? Do you believe in consciousness or not? You have to make big steps of faith, whatever you believe.

I guess, bottom-line, I do not need to prove something unproveable, I just need to know it, and I do know it, based on perception and reason.

Kathryn: You have no idea how hard it was for me to learn and understand enough to take what then became a small step of faith. It was not laziness and it is still not laziness. You are being judgemental and highly inaccurate.

daisykristina: I like hugs!!!

Shaz: Great comments. I think you can get pretty close to showing a creator must exist. But you can never get close to showing which religion is the right religion. However, belief in religion is good, it create a society that allows the free expression of religion and never allows religion, political power. Religion with political power is oppressive.

Kathryn: Faith is not blind. Scientists (or businessmen) must have extra-ordinary faith that their efforts, experiments, analysis will prove or discover a new area of knowledge (or income). If they have no faith, they will not proceed. They use their ability of reasoning and action to succeed. This is true for artists, entrepreneurs, statesmen, and others.

Believers must have extra-ordinary faith that their belief in God, their efforts in living a moral life, their growing in God’s word, and even sacrifice, will ultimately prove that they made the right choices when they are judged by God. If they have no faith, they will not do what they need to do, when the moment comes, in all the actions they take.

Answer 1

I just want to give you a big hug!

thanks for that.

Answer 2

I would think science and faith are siblings on the path of discovery....now science and religion is another matter.

I believe that organized religion is the main problem...instead of everyone have a general belief that is at most loosely tied together with others..we have a very strict rigid religious system which always organizes and when an organization is made rules must be made and adhered to.

Science and religion SHOULD be hand and hand one leading the other higher and higher but they are now bitter rivals since religion has become very rigid, closed and angry at new explinations to replace those from thousands of years ago.

I think the movie Dogma said it best.
"RUFUS
He still digs humanity, but it bothers Him to see
the **** that gets carried out in His name - wars,
bigotry, but especially the factioning of all the
religions. He said humanity took a good idea and,
like always, built a belief structure on it.

BETHANY
Having beliefs isn't good?

RUFUS
I think it's better to have ideas. You can change
an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life
should malleable and progressive; working from
idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to
certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't
generate. Life becomes stagnant. That was one
thing the Man hated - still life. He wanted
everyone to be as enthralled with living as He
was. Maybe it had something to do with knowing
when He was going to die. but Christ had this
vitality that I've never encountered in another
person since."


to sum up they in a perfect world religion and science would be together.


Addition: I agree that yes religion should be denied power and it should be free religious society and no one would know what is right religion but without such organized structures my private opinion is that it would not matter if it was right or wrong. I don't care that my neighbor hates the Simpsons even though I love it but if we codify and draw lines then we become enemies/rivals for who is right and who is wrong, creates conflict+disunity.
Everyone would have their own belief based on who they are and how they experience life, which everyone does differently, and so everyone would almost be a religion unto themselves giving lots of new ideas, progression, discussion, idea swapping, etc. I would love to see this but when you all believe the same EXACT thing and have a big "church" then it seems to work out 99% of the time that you attack, hate or mistrust any "outsiders" which stifles creativity and progress.

Then again I could be flat out wrong as well which I have been many times in my life it is just what I think is the main problem to combination of science/faith/religion which I think would launch humanity into the universe at large

by the way great question!

Answer 3

What if science and faith are both right ? I believe they are based on what I've read . If they are both right it means that centuries of religious persecution and wars have killed millions of people for no valid reason. Author Z. Sitchin has made the question of god and bible writings his life's work, and he explains the origins of humans in a nonfiction book called 'The 12th Planet'. Or you can read the Dead Sea Scrolls and the most ancient literature online. Unfortunately it takes a hundred years or five generations for any new idea to be accepted into society. Our children's children will be closer to the truth than our current society who is in the slow process of uncovering the clever deception bestowed on mankind by aliens, priests and politicans. Would like to hear what other people think... what if?

Answer 4

Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence. Richard Dawkins

Faith is an absolutely marvelous tool. With faith there is no belief that cannot be justified. Rev. Donald Morgan (b. 1933), Atheist theologian

No amount of belief makes something a fact. James Randi

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it doesn't go away. Philip K. Dick

Faith is believing what you know ain't so. Mark Twain

Science - 1. a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences.

My conclusion - Science is right. Faith is intellectual laziness.

Edit - sorry to be judgmental. Perhaps "faith is blind" is a more accurate conclusion.

Your Highness, I have no need of this hypothesis. Pierre Laplace, to Napoleon on why his works on celestial mechanics make no mention of God.

Next edit - you haggle over semantics. You and I know darn well what is meant by "faith" in this forum.

Answer 5

Good for Albert!!!!!!!!!

Science and religion work hand in hand. The religious books and concepts come from a time when man could not understand most of his world, and how things happened. They told it as they saw it.

Now, we have begun to realize what makes things happen. It does not make it any less of G-d. In fact, it makes it more wonderful too see what He has done.

G-d gave us the earth and life. He gave up brains with which to work. Why should we expect Him to do it all? It is now our turn to help with His continuing creation, and do our share of the work.

Answer 6

My understanding is that you are correct. What causes most of the negativity that you see is mankind dividing the two and attempting to make them seperate. IMHO I do see a time coming where this thought will be recognized and accepted. Now that will be an interesting day! :-)

Answer 7

Well, I shall swallow the bait and agree with you. What if??

Well, then, it would prove that we have ALL been wrong. Religion really is a hoax then. Not the non-denominational creator you speak of (and this includes us being nothing more than a simulation run on a supercomputer of an alien race), but the myths and legends that surround him - they would ALL BE FALSE.

Answer 8

I absolutely agree with what you have to say. Such a drive exists to separate the two - science and spirituality - and I've never understood why. My own personal faith aside, I've found little in science to totally disprove what I believe, and I've found little in my faith that tells me I cannot accept scientific discoveries as valid. Thank you for putting this thought on the table.

Answer 9

I believe that science and faith are very often on the same side of an issue. The "other side" is very often hatred, ignorance, stupidity, or evil (could be others too).

Good question.

Answer 10

If the faith bit were not so vague, I would totally be able to agree. Love the quotes, though and you make a good point.

Answer 11

I imagine that faith in the one who created the laws of science and scientific truth indeed go hand in hand! (The problem is that the science of men and scientific truth do not always go hand in hand)