free will????????????????

Question

according to religious doctrine, god is omniscient.
therefore he knows all.
therefore there is one definitive reality .
therefore we are all predestined according to religious doctrine.
but many say we also have free will.
i see a way this may be legitimate, but i dont know, it seems real shifty.
think of a person as a marble and their life's course as a tube which they travel down.
they want to follow the tube b/c of the force of gravity, so this is sort of like free will.
but i am very doubtful of this truly being free will as the tube, unless it is totally vertical, also influences their course, and even if the marble wants to break through the tube, it cannot.
i think this is an accurate metaphor for life's course as Christian doctrine sees it, but that really doesnt seem like free will to me.
what do you think??

Answer 1

It certainly feels like we have free will, but it sure is hard to construct an argument for free will that isn't as full of holes as Swiss cheese. I'm going to butcher this quote, I'm sure, and I don't even remember who said it, but here it is: "All experience is for us having free will, but all good theory is against it." I think the solution may be what philosophers call compatibalism. The basic idea, as I see it, is that we are free agents operating within a deterministic system. We can never really break out of the chains of causality, but the fact that we are conscious beings who make choices based on our beliefs and desires allows us to navigate our own course. This does not give us something called "Will" that works from outside of causality, but it does make our precious little selves, which we cherish so much, an important part of the process. This also implies that the more you know the more freedom you have. After all, you can't choose options you are unaware of. Knowledge really is power. Obviously for this to be convincing would take more work than I care to do, and more time than I have right now. But that's my take on the issue.

Answer 2

Calculus, your argument has a big flaw somewhere between the third and the fourth therefore.

Also, what kind of dusty, antiquated and outdated deterministic book have you been reading? Equating the human life with a marble subjected to the force of gravity? How about a subatomic particle subjected to Heisenberg's principle of indetermination?

But, although better, not even this metaphor could possibly convey the miracle of human life, endowed with free consciousness and free will, while the particle, no matter how indeterminate its present and future might seem to us, still obeys laws in its movement. (You also choose a very inappropriate metaphor, to my opinion.)

You should first acknowledge that there is a big difference between omniscience and predestination. Even if we add to omniscience God's providence, there is still a huge difference, because God never steps over our free will. He might sometimes send us hints and reminders, but no more than that. We, on the other hand, may change our ways according to God's will (or contrary to God's will) or not. The fact that God is outside time and sees all our lifetime in one blink (a metaphor) doesn't deny us our freedom.

If we are bound in this life, we are bound by passions and temptations, which are difficult overcome without Christ in our life. However, once we are set free, we are free to continue on the good path or go astray again.

Answer 3

I think you missed a couple things in your first few sentences. Predestination doesn't just mean "knowing all". It means choosing His own, and no matter how hard they try, Arminians can never fully reconcile Man choosing his destiny versus God choosing it for him, with any analogy. If Man's will is truly free, then by definition God cannot know for sure how we will choose. And that makes for a weak God, IMHO.

The Calvinist explanation of your marble theory is that the marble in the tube is traveling downward all right, and that marble is tainted with sin to the point that it has no choice but to travel where sin is leading it -- to destruction. The marble wants to go downhill, and the marble does not of its own ability even seek to be saved. It takes a loving God to know who that marble is before it ever enters the tube, claim it has His own (as opposed to us claiming God for our own), and then reaching out and stopping that marble from heading downhill, to hold it in the palm of His hand. And the marble can only respond with a "thank you", not understanding why it even happened, but, its eyes having been opened, now has joy in its heart that it was saved from where that tube ended up. And the Arminian will call that marble a robot, forced into the palm of His hand and not being allowed a "free choice". Tell you what, I don't want free choice, I know where that tube leads. Too many people don't, but that's why we keep trying to tell everyone we can about the wonderful thing that happened to us.

Answer 4

If anyone were to study neuroscience, or biopsychology for that matter, they would discover that free will doesn't even exist in the context many believe it to be. Our conscious mind has no control over our decisions our decisions are made before we are aware of them. This was found out in a study. Go ahead and research it. Anyway, the brain is physical, and an object of influences. There are multiple factors that lead to a final decisions being made all of which are complex and not always in the right direction. There is no I, self, or soul that hits the 'execute' button. It is a complex system of brain processes that the self is unable to comprehend in it's exact form. We only see what our brains allow us to see.

Answer 5

Although I'm a firm believer in Jesus and the Bible and I normally don't look to "Hollywood" for answers...with that said...One of the best explanations of free will I have ever seen comes from the movie "Bruce Almighty." Bruce, played by Jim Carey, gets an opportunity to have God's powers (played by Morgan Freeman), after God hears him complaining about how God isn't doing His job. In exchange for this amazing opportunity, God gives Bruce two limitations 1) Bruce can't tell anybody he is God, in which Bruce happily complies and 2) Bruce can't mess with antibody's free will. This strange request confuses Bruce and after he ponders for a moment, he asks "why?" In which God replies, "yes you can." I certainly wouldn't build my theology off this movie, but it does beautifully depict that we have the freedom and luxury to ask questions (like you are doing) such as why.

Answer 6

My best friend and I had this exact conversation a few years ago. The way I see predestination verses free will is that there is a place you have to get but the path you use to get there is your own choice. Say for instance you are predestined to get off your bed and go to your closet. You have a choice of going straight for the closet or maybe going to the dresser before you go to the closet..... That's really a simplistic way to visualize it, but gives you the basic idea.

Answer 7

Within the doctrines of Christianity, free will never did or will exist. However, we as people decide our fate by standing above something that would otherwise affect us indefinetly. We decide what we do, unless we allow ourselves to be controlled. We cannot continue to fall into the terrible grasp of this plague like society of so called righteousness. The christian religion has always been evil, but its planning is so well devised that even our "savior" never knew what he was doing. Nothing can be done to change the fate of those who don'ty understand, but we can change the fate of those who are willing to accept themselves. We should never be governed in our actions by some all grasping plan. The very thought of such a thing is brutally evil. If christianity woul end, so many conflicts would end Barr Nun. We decide who we are if we allow ourselves to do so. I am not one to say I am impervious to such an action as that of believing in a religion, but I surely do not let it control me. I allow myself, me not my belief, to govern everything I do. I have freed myself from the shackles of the plague and am shedding light on its intricate and diseased fathoms. Religion should only be a guideline and an honor, never sucha thing as a console to which gods can meddle with our destiny. They are in many ways dependant upon us. We define them and we create their existence from the deepest halls of our everlasting minds. Everything they are is nothing without the interpretation of a so called " lower form". I have so much to say yet many do not listen, I would explain if you will listen, I believe you will know where to contact me.

Answer 8

Computers

Answer 9

Man in a lost state is dead in sin and can not turn to God unless the Holy Spirit does a work in his life. Lost man is free to do what he wants, but not free to do what he should, for he is dead in sin.

Answer 10

We do have free will. God does know and has known from the beginning what our choice will be. He doesn't force us to make that choice, He just knows what we will choose.