A line of reasoning....?

Question

Here's a conversation I had lately (paraphrased):

Me: How do you know god exists?

Chrstian friend: I see him in everything around me, and know in my heart that he exists.

Me: If that is so, then why do I not see him in everything and know in my heart that he exists?

Slightly annoyed christian friend: You must actively believe and attempt to seek him first.

Me: So, to acknowledge god's existence, basically to believe in him, I have to believe in him first? That sounds like circular reasoning to me.

Angry Christian ex-friend: You'll see one day!

Me: Yes, but when?

Angry hostile Christian ex-friend: when your burning in hell for eternity! [storms off]

Me: which raises another question.... why would an all loving god send me to hell for not believing in him?

Angry hostile Christian ex-friend: Silence unbeliever!

Okay, so maybe it didn't go exactly like that, but it's close.

Would the christians like to raise any other/new points?

Answer 1

Yes, it is a nutty paradox that you have to go to one in whom you don't--or barely--believe and ask for the gift of faith.

This isn't my theory. It is what I did. God, indeed, revealed himself in my life after I asked him to. I acknowledged that I felt like an idiot, and I apologized for being an idiot, but basically I said, "Look, dude, I have no idea who you are or if you are there, but I would like to know. If you would, will you please let me know if you exist and, if so, who you are?" I did this--some version of it--on a consistent basis, daily, for a while. And God ultimately gave me what I was seeking. It is the search for him that is vital to finding him. Come as you are, pretend not, and just say what's on your mind. God will hear you.

An all-loving God would not send you to hell for not believing in him. An all-loving God would allow you to exist apart from him eternally per your own choice to refuse to accept the gift that he offered you--which is salvation through his Son, and which is the only way to get to know him personally, instead of intellectually, in theory, and so forth.

A word of caution: Let not one Christian's reaction deter you from searching for God.

Answer 2

Hi Devil'sad. I'm not a Christian, but I'll give you a stupid line of reasoning anyway. You don't believe in God. You don't want to believe in God. Fine. One of the next two things is true and the other is not: Either you have the right to your own beliefs just like everyone else does or you do not and neither does anyone else. If both you and other people have a right to believe as you choose, then you need to shut the hell up and stop taunting people about their beliefs if you want people to shut the hell up about your beliefs.
Sorry for beating around the bush.

Answer 3

First of all lets take your last first, you are correct. the God of Love would never send his child to hell for not loving him, for the God of Love gave you free will and did not creat a place called hell. It is fully and totaly a mis conception. Man in his delightful ways of wanting to be all knowing has created the hell in which he so believes so much, that those that actually believe in hell might just have a chance to visit the very place they have created out of their fear.

You can not prove that God exist scientifically and that is what you want. You can not prove what your friend was trying to say, "faith" for that is what faith is, faith, its not provable.

It is indeed possible for you to have so much faith that you need no other proof of God existance than to look around you or to see the stars above your head sparkling with lights beyond your eyes, but yet you know those stars are there and forever expanding further and further out. It is a thing of the heart.

But.....again...God will let you wonder for as long as you need before you come to the realization of his Love. For God made you for Him and he loves you for you are his son/daughter and he will be there when you are ready!.

And your friend, sometimes Christains just dont know how to put things into words, he will one day. Give him some slack. After all to forgive is Divine!

Answer 4

First of all I can't tell you why you do not feel God...but if you ever do, it will be a feeling like no other...I don't know if you are not open to his presence or what...but just because you do not feel him does not mean He does not exist..that is the misconception that non believers have...What have you done for Him lately...have you asked for Him to reveal Himself...Believing in God is not just a warm fuzzy feeling, it is a commitment and sometimes a hard one....and please, the lame question about loving God sending people to hell is just that...lame...you are blaming Him for your lack of proof of his existence? Have you ever looked up the word faith....? Although for alot of Christians...His presence is proof!

Answer 5

First point, you are exactly correct, God IS LOVE and he would never send you to hell. Actually, there is no such place as hell.

Second point, a belief system is a belief system - whether you believe in God or believe there is no God, both are internal beliefs you have formed and are unprovable.

Third point, the actual truth exists independant of whichever belief system you hold. If you do enough research you'll find out that the universe was in fact created by the Creator through the process of evolution. We are still evolving now. Evolution is the whole point.

Answer 6

How do you know that wind, thoughts, gravity, or even air exists. That is how Believers know God exsists. And for your christian ex-friend, He didn't handle the situation right, apparently. So try just to understand that God is here and everywhere. He will judge everyone for every single sin we have ever committed. But He still loves us so much. All we have to do is accept His gift of eternal life and we will live with Him forever and ever. May God Bless you. : )

Answer 7

Two people can look at a painting and not see the same thing. The same with a poem. I can write one, post it, and others will see in it what they will. This proves nothing. Most of us have chosen and hold our place at that choice.

Answer 8

You wouldn't be questioning your ex friend if you didn't wonder what is missing. If we are content, we do not question. But there will be trials that will cause you to question again.. This time, with an open and fearful heart.

Answer 9

Uh, how did the conversation continue after your friend stormed off?

Answer 10

What is the proof that God does not exsist. I have had a difficult time answering that also.