How can i tell if a martial arts school is good and not a McDojo? Also, what is a reasonable price range?

Question

More specifically, I am looking to join a school that teaches kung fu. I'm not really that concerned about which style as of yet, though I do have my ideas. I think if i get a basic grounding in one kung fu style, it will help along the way when i find one that i really like.
So how do i figure out if the places i am looking are worth the time of day? Are there any reputible tournaments that i should know about that they might join? Any groups around that do evaulation of dojos? Also, what is a normal price range for good dojo?

Answer 1

Talk to the instructor. Watch, or better, try a few classes. If the instructor won't let you watch much less try a class, RUN don't walk away. If the instructor wants you to sign a long term contract, leave. Prices vary with location, call around. Also make sure you know how many classes per week are allowed & what days are available.
Talk to students & their parents. Find out how long it takes to get a Black Belt. If kids are getting black Belts in 1-2 years, leave. If the instructors guarantee a black belt in some specified time, leave.
You may want to look at how many levels there are befor black belt. A traditional Korean school has 9. If it is 12 or more, be very suspicious.
What is the instructor's rank? Who gave it to him/her? What is the source of that person's rank? If you can't trace the source back to the country of orgin quickly & easily, leave.

Answer 2

Watch a class. Are the students enjoying themselves? Is the teacher teaching or are they simply walking around yelling a the students? Do they help the students learn or are they busy showing off to everyone?

A dojo is a place to learn and share. As a student you offer others a chance to hit or throw you. This must be done with respect and caring.

The style of kung fu is not as important as to how it is taught. Your teacher makes all the difference in the world. As well, the attitudes of the students are important. The higher belts should set the benchmark and demonstrate skill, confidence and respect to everyone. If you have one jackass instructor hurting people, it detracts from your ability to learn and enjoy the experience.

As far as pricing goes, if you sign a contract for a course, find out how long they have been in business. Ask the person if other equipment is required and if so, what is the cost. And do not forget to ask about the testing schedules and fees.

It is disheartening to train hard for a goal and grow in an art, only to find that each successive belt test is much higher than the next. Remember that the Black Belt is the beginning of learning. In the Japenses system, Shodan's Kanji literally means first steps.

Martial art training is a lifelong commitment of enjoyment so choose a style and school that you enjoy. Train to the max and have a great time.

Answer 3

You've already gotten some good answers, but I think the most important things to consider are these:

Any school needs to do some marketing. Is the marketing about bringing in students, or is it about making money. The difference is a fine one, but an important one.

Money: There are pretty much no standards about who can join and nothing is expected of students except that they pay their tuition. I have heard of - though I've never actually seen - schools where they don't even bother with tracking attendance; if you pay your tuition you get your next rank.

Students: The school will be looking for commitment. This one can fly in the face of the "no contracts" mentality you often see. This mentality comes from schools which sign you up for a contract and guarantee a certain amount of "progress" just based on the contract.

My school insists on a six-month commitment because I *know* that at the end of six months you'll have learned something worthwhile regardless of what rank you've achieved. I will not, however, guarantee you will achieve any particular rank in that time. And I do this because I know that in less than that you'll just learn "tricks" that you'll forget within a few weeks of terminating your training.

I'm not teaching tricks. I'm teaching a way of life.

Look for clear standards in ranking. How many classes are required (if they simply don't track attendance, run, don't walk to the next place)? What should they have learned (this one: it doesn't really matter so much what it *is* as that it exists)? How is testing done? How much emphasis is placed on attendance and time in training (these should be tracked and should be factors, but too much emphasis on them - especially the latter - indicates an attitude more about money than training)?

Testing fees: If there is formal testing, are the fees simply for the right to test, or are they for the advancement? If they are simply for the right to test, it's a McDojo most likely. If it's for the advancement, how much is it? It should never be more than $30 and then only if the school is very large requiring a number of instructors on the mat for the ranking ceremony.

If there is no formal testing, ask how testing is done. Make sure you like the answer. Informal testing, IME, often works better than formal testing. But it can also turn into a popularity contest where the instructor promotes the people he likes and leaves the ones he doesn't behind.

Credentials and lineage: Look for certificates for the instructor(s) prominently displayed. Legitimate certificates are a valuable data point. If you are suspicious of credentials, check them out.

Watch a class, join a class.

Some schools will allow a certain number of free classes for new students. IME, this is a good sign. It demonstrates confidence on the part of the instructor. Even if they don't do that, you should be allowed to come on the mat for a reasonable mat fee. Reasonable being something between $10-$30 depending on the school, location and (probably) the frequency with which the instructor has to deal with this.

Finally, look at the attitude they encourage in the students. I see four broad groups in this:

1) Kill, kill, kill. These actually seem rarer, recently, but they're still out there. Mostly though, these days it's just encouraging aggression. I see this one, sometimes, as schools which teach you to fight and then tell you not to. Run, don't walk, away.

2) Just learn the moves, don't worry about the attitude. Walk away quietly. This is definitely a McDojo.

3) Assertive, not aggressive. Peace is inherent in the training, but this is not the peace of someone who is defenseless, rather the peace of a person who sees no need for conflict.

4) Passive. These actually aren't as common as some here believe they are, but they do occur. Some of them actually do manage to teach valuable martial arts skills, but mostly not.

Obviously, I'm an advocate for schools in the third group.

Answer 4

All I have to say is even if the extreme happened and one would think all martial art dojos became mcdojos but think about it. You do not have to have a dojo to train. So in the end there will never be all mcdojos because like at a school i started to train at its in someones backyard/garage. Also at my old school which i left because i moved away it was at a recreational center but rent was cheap and all we had to do was buy our own belts. At my new school all I had to do was buy a black gi and the Professor even gave me a new white belt. Also another situation to cancel out that all schools will become mcdojos is that people could have practice at a beach or park. So in the end no matter what happens there will never be all schools mcdojos. A DOJO is a place where you train of the way and the way could be trained anywhere not just on a mat in a buidling

Answer 5

I can't speak for all schools. Or even Kung Fu for that matter. You can usually tell pretty easy by the instructor. If he is cocky, or wants to tell you how much of a master he is.... look the other way. I have found over the years that the masters that are NOT concerned with rank are the best. after all the belt just keeps the gui tight! The school should be clean and nice, with discipline. Ask him about his history, and if he is a self proclaimed master trust me, it will come out!

99-150$ per month is about average for any martial art school.

Answer 6

Avoiding a McDojo can be very hard for two reasons: first, a qualified instructor doesn't always have to register some place, and second, an unqualified instructor can make up credentials. If you walk in, and he says that he learned from Sifu Bob Harley, who learned from Grand Master Greg Ching, who learned from Shaolin Monk Henry Smith, how are you going to know he's lying (other than those names are obviously made up.) On the other hand, if a Chinese imigrant learned his family system from his father and grand father, and was going to teach that, what kind of credentials do you expect from him?

Ask what competitions they go to, what medals they've won, etc. Some schools aren't competitive, though, feeling it goes against the philosophy they're trying to teach their students. Sometimes this is an honest moral convictions, other times, a clever smoke screen.

You can see if they're affiliated with any organizations, but be aware that not all Martial Arts organizations are written by techono-savey people. The Kuo Shu Federation of China, for example, comes up from time to time in the reading of various Kung Fu books by various masters, but I have yet to see a web site for them. Some of these groups aren't entirely formal: a group of masters of similar systems get together and agree to recognize eachother as masters.

It could be noted that college accredidation operates under a similar set of principles, except the state gets involved. It's not a flawless system, but usually McDojos are going to avoid trying to do something like that bcause if they huddle together in a group and one is seen as the McDojo it is, what does that say for the rest of them? And a real master will be able to see through the lies of a McDojo pretty quick.

The best way to tell if someone is a McDojo is to get a friend who has practiced Martial Arts for a while, and have them talk to the instructor. He'll know in a short time if you're dealing with the real deal or a McDojo.

Answer 7

while I can't speak for the Kung Fu disciplines either as yupchagee said, many Korean disciplines have up to 9 belts, and that is often a standard in many of the disciplines in Martial Arts.

another thing is whether or not they talk about how many tournaments thier students enter a year, or have placed or won a trophy, or even how many trophies they have on the shelf, while winning tournaments and competitions is good, it's the LEAST necessary aspect of Martial Arts.

Finding out what world or Natl. organization that the school is affiliated with and making sure that it is a legitimate group.

find out how long the instructor has been teaching the discipline and how long they have studied Martial arts, and can they back it up with paperwork like certifed certificates with dates that are consistent with the time the instructor says they were a student, and as yupchagee said, who're the people that govern his school and training when testing comes around. be cautious about any one that offers lengthy contracts to sign, those're often big red flags about the school, especially if it's 6 months or more.

about price, it varies from school to school, but if they don't have a breakdown of the fees for the class, protective gear, uniform, testing, or any extra items you need, that's another red flag you wanna be aware of.

good luck in finding a good place to train.

as for

Answer 8

I pretty much agree with what yupchagee, sifu shaun and quicksilver and others said. Except for the long term contract thing. I know several very reputable dojo and dojang with great instructors that offer 6 and 12 month contracts. But maybe that's different in the USA, that could be it. It's just that here you often pay in 6 or 12 month terms, to cut back on the instructor's time spent on administration and to improve the student's motivation to attend lessons, I assume.

Answer 9

www.bullshido.net

This is the best place for your question. There are many people there who have been in martial arts whole their life and have a lot of experience to back them up. So they will be able to help you.

However for Kung Fu, only Kung Fu I would recommend to anyone are San Shou and San Da. Good luck finding that school since it's pretty rare.

For reasonable price, I would say 70 to 150 a month, depend on where you live. I use to live in big city and paid 135 a month for one gym then 120 for others until I become a fighter I pay 70 a month after that. Now I'm in small city training at a boxing gym and it cost me only 50 a month.

Answer 10

if theinstructor talks about himself and what he has accomplished pass it up. If he tells you that you will get a black belt faster the more you pay pass it up. Look for a school that is more interested in letting you know what the students have accomplished in Martial Arts. Also anything less than 75 dollars is a good price. If they charge anymore they are not interested in teaching. They are more interested in your money. I pay 50 dollars a month and it is a non-profit school. non of the instructors get paid. all money is for competitions like regional and nationals for children who can't afford to go and also for upkeep of our school. all our instructors have regular day jobs. also the most important thing is to look for what suits you. not every school is right for every person. visit many place and watch classes before settle on one. Also if they won't quote you a monthly proce over the phone pass it up. they are just wanting to get out in to give you the sales pitch.