More and more, as days go by, more and more die in Iraq; a term that seems to become more and more prevelent?

Question

in my mind is "unwinnable", so over the past several months I've decided for sure that I am against the war.

Since Bush has said, "you're either for us or against us".

So I guess that I'm against "us", (because in spite of all the rhetoric to the contrary, what have we accomplished, if we leave, as we did in Viet Nam, and Iraq decides against democracy?)

We can't cram democracy down their throats, during a civil war.

His leaving no other alternative leaves many, tired of the conflict, to have similar opinions I'm sure.

It's an untenable situation. What do you think?

"Truth seek..." cite from Rense; especially the cite: "From early 2001..." , (near the end), is very important to what we are discussing here.

Read the whole cite if you'd like to be informed.

Answer 1

Well, I certainly respect your opinion. Me, on the other hand, are with the USA. I took my oath three days ago, and swore to protect the USA no matter whos in office. I believe we can win, but alot of you would call me nieve. I don't know, but I didn't join the Army Infantry to kill Iraqi's, so while i dont agree with what you say, ill defend to the death your right to say it.

Answer 2

Very untenable...and about to become a whole lot more untenable. Watch for big speeches about Iran this week...Bush and NATO are about to launch the "final offensive" in the war on terror against Iran and Syria. Or so it will be sold. Nukes have been "deployed and authorized" in the upcoming invasions.

It's all about oil. There is a new pipeline from Georgia (former USSR) to the Mediterranean bypassing the Persian Gulf. It goes through Turkey just north of Syria. The Russians are not too happy about a pipeline from their old territory to the west. The cold war is alive and well and about to have a major confrontation over the worlds oil supplies.

Answer 3

Seems you have been listening to the other sides rhetoric..I can't blame you for thinking there is no winning...all you hear is the death and destruction.
I don't know exaclty how many cities are in Irag...but if you actually listen to whats happening..there are only 3 places that is a problem.
The media knows people want to hear the bad news....otherwise the news would be boring. Even the local scene is nothing but negatives.
Do more research before you actually believe that Iraq is a failure.
You will be suprised.
The people causing the problems watch CNN too and use the negative reports to their advantage.

Answer 4

I think that bush has absolutly no control over the situation whatsoever. We will continue wasting our time in Iraq until perhaps the next president who doesn't whore our military. Perhaps we will find a way to force the Iraqis to rule in a democratic fashion, but I think that we will probably end up pullin our forces out and causing the mid-east to collapse even further.

But who knows! thats the beauty of the future! We could be on the brink of a world-wide revolution! A leader could arise who everyone loves, evens out the economy, reduces dept, brings peace to the middle east, creates global peace at last, and even gets rid of american taxes! Just kidding about the last one.... Only time will tell what our future leaders have in hold for us. There are so many things that could happen, I just can't wait to see how it unfolds once Bush is gone. America is immensly powerful. With a proper leader we can get very far! But with bush, things seem to spin fast but theres no traction under his wheels. His wheels (tactics) are bald and have been used before in the past.

Answer 5

Questioner, you can't change the facts on the ground in the confines of your mind. You can bean-count what you believe to be the evidence in your head all day long, but that simply does NOT encompass the facts on the ground. Even having spent two years in Iraq from south to north in over a dozen cities and towns, I still don't see the full picture. I have friends who are Kaldani, Ashuri, Kurdish, and Arab. I still don't see everything, and no human being is meant to be omniscient.

We are not "cramming" democracy down their throats. They chose to embrace it. Arab governments have been emulating the central government model for generations now (and indeed, this is by both monarchies such as Jordan and Nasserite republics such as Egypt) and the best way to reinforce even autocratic rule is through the institution of simple voting. Even Communism never dispensed with the ballot. Even Saddam never dispensed with the ballot. The Iraqis would have kept the ballot box regardless of what happened to their nation. What we did is remove the single-party state that loved the torture chamber, the bulldozer, and the helicopter gunship, and make it a free-for-all. Does it look pretty? No. Were we prepared? Hell no. Does that mean we cut and run, and let them carbomb and hack each other up until the end of the world? Why? Is it because an Iraqi is worth less than an American somehow?

If you're tired, that's you. Chances are the people most tired of it aren't even the ones fighting it up watching it on TV. If you don't like it, watch something else on it. How do you think the vets who are in their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th tours feel about it? If they're not so tired as to be going on these 2nd, 3rd, and 4th tours, what do you think the situation on the ground REALLY is?

Casting the peacekeeping mission in Iraq in terms of Republican vs Democrat is nonsense. American politics mean nothing to Iraqis. They see the President on TV, they see their Prime Minister on TV, they see American military on joint patrols with Iraqi military and police, they draw their own conclusions from the bullet holes in the walls. They couldn't care less about how you feel. They couldn't care less whether you think it's "winnable" or "unwinnable" or not. After all, they're used to us ditching them. People who thought exactly like you back in the day higher up in the food chain decided "Hey, let's incite the Iraqi people to revolt. Wait, we don't want American boys dying so let's just say it and not send troops to back them up." The ensuing decade-long massacre that required us to maintain No-Fly zones in the north and south of Iraq killed THOUSANDS. You don't think we owe these people?

So what is it? "Screw 'em - take care of AMERICA, hell yeah"? What next, we seal the borders north and south (fine) and then we tell everyone applying for political asylum with the cigarette burns and the missing fingers "Hey sorry, we don't need you or any of your problems. Goto Europe, they'll take care of you." What next? "It's not our problem. We don't care. Let everyone else in the world kill each other."

Well, we tried that approach, and let all sorts of terrorists run around. When warmongers in the United States treat every political problem as a military threat, we get problems. When peaceniks treat every political problem as a charity case, we get problems. The latter case is in many instances worse, because they're so willing to believe that the American military, Israeli military, or whoever the Baskin Robbins tyrant of the week is SO BAD that the alternatives MUST be good. These alternatives are people like Fidel Castro, Ho Chi Minh, Yasser Arafat, and various other paragons of humanity.

You don't have to be for or against anybody. But before you decide what's the right thing to do, think it ALL the way through and weigh the moral consequences. If someone else is willing to fight and die for it, then be willing to ask WHY instead of painting some answer in your head. You may find yourself breaking a few paradigms there.

Answer 6

well peace is all there is, but with everthing has a negative side, everything has a positive side,,yeap wars, are not good,an might feel very negative therefor it harder to find the positives,. but out of everthing bad becomes something good, idont know who said it? but someone said that.i am not americian but i do not dislike the man or the men who have to make these descions sometimes we have to believe what they are doing is right even if it comes across as wrong, because its like a collective conscience thingy going on.
like the thing in politics it has many opionions, but each opionion then is controled by the most dominant opionion
of the time,, when it comes down to it then we voted for our leaders so we have to patriotic to our country an try not be derogative towards say mr bush because he is controled by the people that vote for him. an it doesnt solve the problems.

Answer 7

Don't be a jerk. When Bush spoke those words he was talking about countries that harbor or support terrorists and our allies, not American Citizens. Perhaps if you watched something besides CNN/ABC/CBS/NBC you would have a better idea what is going on. Ever give a thought as to why the terrorists are flocking to Iraq? What happens if they lose there?

Answer 8

Bush has to polarise the situation for his own sake - fighting a war that isn't officially promoted as essential to one's own national security is close to political suicide:

thousands of your own countrymen killed, hundreds of thousands of foreign civilians killed, 10s of billions wasted on death when they could benefit life in the United States and elsewhere.

This war can't be won when it's against the wishes of the Iraq citizens themselves, the only people who matter in this case.

Answer 9

Of course it is. We aren't going tp change 2000 years of that culture in Iraq. They have the government they deserve. They will have to grow up and decide whether or not they are willing to fight and die for democracy. Of course they won't. Nope they will install a theocracy and become a very unpleasant place to live. But it will be their choice. Self-determination of nations must be preserved.

American blood spilled in Iraq will never result in a bumper crop of democracy...only sorrow and grieving in America.

Answer 10

it has gotten out of hand and the Iraqi are killing each other by the hundreds. i just wonder how is it that they can do this and not be seen. i mean 1 or 2 dead OK but 89 dead in one clip somebody had to know something why doesn't any body stand up. where are all the supposed peaceful Muslim clerics. why don't they raise their voices to stop the Muslim on muslin violence ?