The Doctrine of the TRINITY...Mystery or Confusion?

Question

Are Jesus and God Co-Equal?

According to the Scriptures, they clearly are NOT equal. In every case, where God and Jesus are referred to in one context, Jesus is subordinate, and the Father is superior. Here are a handful of the many texts on this issue:

"Why callest thou me good? None is good, save one, that is, God." (Luke 18:19)
"My Father is Greater than I" (John 14:28)
"The Head of Christ is God" (1 Corinthians 11:3)
"[Jesus] sat down on the right hand of God" (Hebrews 10:12)
"Then shall the Son also himself be subject ... that God may be all in all" (1 Corinthians 15:28)

Perhaps most telling of all is that Jesus recognizes God as his own God -- his superior, to whom he renders adoration, worship and praise (Matthew 27:46, John 20:17, Ephesians 1:17, Revelation1:6). No scripture says Jesus is co-equal!


(3) Are Jesus and God Co-Eternal?

In the sense that both will always exist, yes. But that is true of angels and saints and all the obedient.The intent of Co-Eternal is that they always existed eternally from ages past, neither preceding the other. This is not true of Jesus. The Scriptures affirm that Jesus was "the beginning of the Creation of God" (Revelation 3:14), and the "firstborn of every creature" (Colossians 1:15). Therefore he had a beginning. There was a time before that when God was alone. Proverbs 8:22 says of Jesus, "The LORD created me the first of his works long ago, before all else that he made. I was formed in earliest times, at the beginning, before earth itself" (Proverbs 8:22, 23, NRSV). No scripture says Jesus was co-eternal!


(4) Is the Holy Spirit a Person?

Ordinarily there would be no question about this. The holy Spirit of God anointed Jesus at Jordan, who received it not "by measure" (John 3:34). It is "poured out" and "shed" on others (Acts 10:45,Acts 2:17,33, Joel 2:28, Zechariah 12:10). Persons are not "poured," "shed" or "measured," but the spirit, power and influence of God is properly described this way.

The holy Spirit of God is variously described in Scripture as the spirit of Truth, Holiness, Life, Faith, Wisdom, Grace, and Glory. The Scripts also speak of an opposite spirit of Jealousy, Judgment, Burning, Heaviness, Whoredoms, Infirmity, Divination, Bondage, Slumber, Fear, Antichrist and Error. Do we suppose these are persons?

The Scriptures speak of the spirit of Jacob, Elijah, Tiglath-Pilesser, the Philistines, Cyrus, Princes, the Medes, Zerubbabel, and Joshua. Are these spirits all persons?

Why, then, would any suppose the "holy Spirit of God" (Ephesians 4:30) to be a separate being? Actually no one would (and no one did) until the time mysteries and philosophies began to enter Christian dogma. (More of that later.) But today, centuries later, some suppose a support for the personhood of the holy Spirit because of the pronouns used for it in the New Testament. For example, "When he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth ..." (John 16:13). And of the Comforter Jesus said "I will send him unto you" (verse 7). It sounds like a person because of the pronouns "he" and "him."

But a little examination into the Greek explains the issue. When "comforter" is meant the pronoun is masculine, but when "spirit" is intended the pronoun is neuter. Literally it could be translated "it will guide you ..." It is simply a matter of grammar, not of personality. The Greek word for"comforter" is a masculine noun, and that for "spirit" is a neuter noun. Therefore the pronouns necessarily follow the gender of the noun. (Actually the genders in verse 13 are supplied by the Greek verbs rather than by explicit pronouns, but you get the idea.) No scripture says the holy Spirit of God is a person!

Answer 1

The Doctrine of the TRINITY...Mystery or Confusion?
To many people there is none, because there is no such thing as the Trinity.

There is no such thing as the Trinity, This is largest lie that Satan uses to keep people from knowing who the True God is, if he can do this, he's got you.

“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:36) How do these words confirm that Jesus is not Almighty God?

Jesus says that the Father knows more than the Son does. If Jesus were part of Almighty God, however, he would know the same facts as his Father. So, then, the Son and the Father cannot be equal. Yet, some will say: ‘Jesus had two natures. Here he speaks as a man.’ But even if that were so, what about the holy spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why does Jesus not say that it knows what the Father knows?

1st of all Jesus said: He pointed to God as the Source of his life, saying, “I live because of the Father.” According to the context, this meant that his life resulted from or was caused by his Father, even as the gaining of life by dying men would result from their faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice. Joh 6:56, 57.

Jesus’ being called the “only-begotten Son” (Joh 1:14; 3:16, 18) does not mean that the other spirit creatures produced were not God’s sons, for they are called sons as well. (Ge 6:2, 4; Job 1:6) However, by virtue of his being the sole direct creation of his Father, the firstborn Son was unique, different from all others of God’s sons, all of whom were created or begotten by Jehovah through that firstborn Son. So “the Word” was Jehovah’s “only-begotten Son” in a particular sense,

Jesus is also “Mighty God” and “Eternal Father.” This does not mean that he usurps the authority and position of Jehovah, who is “God our Father.” (2 Corinthians 1:2) “He [Jesus] . . . gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.” (Philippians 2:6) He is called Mighty God, not Almighty God. Jesus never thought of himself as God Almighty, for he spoke of his Father as “the only true God,” that is, the only God who should be worshiped. (John 17:3;


Rev. 1:1; 3:14, RS: “The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him, why did God have to give the revelation to Jesus, if he is God? .

Does the Bible teach that none of those who are said to be included in the Trinity is greater or less than another, that all are equal, that all are almighty? Mark 13:32, RS: “Of that day or that hour no ones knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Of course, that would not be the case if Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were coequal, comprising one Godhead. And if, as some suggest, the Son was limited by his human nature from knowing, the question remains, Why did the Holy Spirit not know?)

John 14:28, RS: “[Jesus said:] If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.”

1 Cor. 11:3, RS: “I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.” (Clearly, then, Christ is not God, and God is of superior rank to Christ. It should be noted that this was written about 55 C.E., some 22 years after Jesus returned to heaven.

A person who is really seeking to know the truth about God is not going to search the Bible hoping to find a text that he can construe as fitting what he already believes. He wants to know what God’s Word itself says. He may find some texts that he feels can be read in more than one way, but when these are compared with other Biblical statements on the same subject their meaning will become clear. It should be noted at the outset that most of the texts used as “proof” of the Trinity actually mention only two persons, not three; so even if the Trinitarian explanation of the texts were correct, these would not prove that the Bible teaches the Trinity

Answer 2

I was just reading and came across this crazy un-insightful babble and had to respond...

So you say Jesus is Not God Almighty (Rev 1:8, 1Tim 3:16, Mal3:1, Gen1:26, Is 7:14,) that should be enough just to let you know that you are BADLY mistaken..

Now as far as the equality with God... he either was or he was a blasphemer... Oh yeah and the fact that Jesus is equal with the Father is cleared up for your denial in Jn 5:18, Phil 2:6... Now as far as the The Holy Spirit being a person then you should read that He (yes the pronoun is for a person) is called God in both Gen. and Acts (Acts 5 its a good read you should try it)...

why is this lame stuff even on the web... I would like to know... here let me give you some more information.. did you know that the word TRINITY was not even in the English language in 400 AD? of course there was no English language but you should probably leave that out of your next point...

Research with an open heart reveals truth.. anything else is just silly.

Answer 3

Just a little side note: Confusion comes from the enemy(satan) 1 Cor. 14:31 God is not a God of confusion.... If the enemy can get you confussed and this is something that you worry about all the time, the he can keep you in distance of all the other things of God. Dont let this become a wedge so badly that you dont just allow God to work in you. I notice this is a big question all the time. Maybe the best thing would be to ask God to show you the truth about this. Most people who answer on here are not exactly "Spirit" lead.

Answer 4

You are deceived. Jesus is unquestionably God.

Let's start in Genesis the first chapter:
26 Then God said, "Let us make human beings in OUR image, in OUR likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, [a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created human beings in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

Next let's look at the Gospel of John: John 1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 HE was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all people. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome [a] it.

John 10:30 30 I and the Father are one."
also v. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."

Answer 5

It is confusing because there is no bible to support it.
There is One God, and His name is Jesus

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Answer 6

Preaching on here is frowned upon. Why bother asking a question if you obviously know the answer, and are just lookingfor a place to preach? I HATE people who do that, since generally, they are bigotted fools.

Answer 7

:o) Very nice. Thank you.